The problem with the mentor system

[SoranRigel]

There is a steady trend in this topic: those, who advocate for maintaining a mentor system, discount the experience of others, use dirty discussion techniques like “your evidence is not evidence” or call opponents, who talk about their real negative experiences, a “crying wolves”.

All this suggests one thing: the system of toxic "elite", named "mentors", should be immediately canceled. There are many who can help others, and a crown is not needed for this. Thanks to those experienced players who helped me more than once, explained and supported me. Many of them, being "mentors" by rank, are afraid to wear the crown, because it has become a symbol of toxicity. There are many reference resources, including this forum and youtube.

We do not need people who assert their right to humiliate others for the sake of the crown, and shut our mouths.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

There is a steady trend in this topic: those, who advocate for maintaining a mentor system, discount the experience of others, use dirty discussion techniques like “your evidence is not evidence” or call opponents, who talk about their real negative experiences, a “crying wolves”.

All this suggests one thing: the system of toxic "elite", named "mentors", should be immediately canceled. There are many who can help others, and a crown is not needed for this. Thanks to those experienced players who helped me more than once, explained and supported me. Many of them, being "mentors" by rank, are afraid to wear the crown, because it has become a symbol of toxicity. There are many reference resources, including this forum and youtube.

We do not need people who assert their right to humiliate others for the sake of the crown, and shut our mouths.

At the same time, you are discounting the experiences of others. It's a vicious circle.

[Miste]

There is a steady trend in this topic: those, who advocate for maintaining a mentor system, discount the experience of others, using dirty discussion techniques like “your evidence is not evidence” or calling opponents, who talk about their real negative experiences, a “crying wolves”.

All this suggests one thing: the system of toxic "elite", named "mentors", should be immediately canceled. There are many who can help others, and a crown is not needed for this. Thanks to those experienced players who helped me more than once, explained and supported me. Many of them, being "mentors" by rank, are afraid to wear the crown, because it has become a symbol of toxicity. There are many reference resources, including this forum and youtube.

We do not need people who assert their right to humiliate others for the sake of the crown and shut our mouths.

Pointing out that your evidence is not evidence is not toxic or "dirty discussion techniques"....it is just pointing out the flaw in your reasoning for deleting the system over the few people who have negative experiences when it may be working as intended. Sure there are "bad" mentors, but that doesn't erase all the good mentors using the system to help new players in content and in the NN. It doesn't erase all the good help newbies have obtained via mentors/NN.

When people say "I had a negative experience with the mentor system so it should be deleted."

It is not "dirty discussion techniques" or "toxic" to ask: "How do you know the mentor system overall is more negative than positive and should be removed?"

How do you know?

One person's (or a few people's) experiences is not the whole picture. It's kind of like petitioning the government to delete an entire highway because you had a run in with a jerk who was drunk driving and crashed into you, when thousands of people use that same highway everyday with no issue. The other driver being drunk and crashing into you has nothing to do with the highway simply existing. They were drunk, and a jerk. You call the police and get them arrested.

Sorta like how bad mentors don't have anything to do with the system existing. If a player is a jerk they will still be a jerk with or without the system in place. The only thing you can do is just call the GM and report them for harassment if that is what they are doing.

It does suck people have negative experiences, but people have negative experiences in this game everyday with any player. Even you said it: you don't need a mentor crown to mentor....well you also don't need a mentor crown to be a jerk. Anyone who is a jerk or humiliating others will still do it even if the mentor system no longer exists. So in the end, what was accomplished by removing it?

If changing the crown to a different icon would change anything then sure SE could try it. I just personally do not believe that a pixel image of a crown turns normally nice players into "toxic elite jerks". Like that is some serious Jekyll and Hyde that a tiny image of a crown suddenly turns a good person into an evil one whenever they wear it. It sounds crazy tbh.

Anyone who thinks the crown makes them superior to others is delusional at best anyway and not worth your time, getting mentor status requires little effort and is not difficult to obtain.

[Deceptus]

There is a steady trend in this topic: those, who advocate for maintaining a mentor system, discount the experience of others, use dirty discussion techniques like “your evidence is not evidence” or call opponents, who talk about their real negative experiences, a “crying wolves”.

We do not need people who assert their right to humiliate others for the sake of the crown, and shut our mouths.

And on the opposite end you have people who have one bad experience with a mentor and think that all mentors are like that.

[Jojoya]

And on the opposite end you have people who have one bad experience with a mentor and think that all mentors are like that.

It's not all mentors but enough are a problem that the system isn't serving its purpose. When I sit in the Novice Network on one of my alts, it's usually sprouts helping other sprouts while the mentors are talking about non-game related topics and ignoring the questions getting asked. Occasionally a mentor will chip in with helpful information but it's rare. SE could remove mentors from the Novice Network and leave it open to sprouts to help each other, and new players wouldn't know the difference.

Too many mentors leave a negative impression on other players instead of a positive one. The system needs more oversight by SE to ensure those who are mentors are fulfilling that roie as SE intends (help others, be an exemplar of player etiquette) and that those who aren't get removed. If SE will not do that, then the mentor system should be disbanded. Players will always have other players who are willing to help that don't require having that crown next to their names. Adventurer in Need is already in place to help fill the parties in duty finder.

[SoranRigel]

it is just pointing out the flaw in your reasoning for deleting the system over the few people who have negative experiences when it may be working as intended.

That 's the problem. No matter how many hundreds of people talk about having a problem, it will be beneficial for you to deny it and say that "an isolated experience proves nothing."
This is called "depreciation." Depreciation is in your interest.

Do you want a piece of good advice?
Stop doing that right now. Perhaps if you stop devaluing, humming, make "dispute for a dispute" and denying existing problems, the gaming community will get a chance to get a little better and cleaner.
If you do not, you will confirm our correctness every time.

[MomomiMomi]

That 's the problem. No matter how many hundreds of people talk about having a problem, it will be beneficial for you to deny it and say that "an isolated experience proves nothing."
This is called "depreciation." Depreciation is in your interest.

Do you want a piece of good advice?
Stop doing that right now. Perhaps if you stop devaluing, humming, make "dispute for a dispute" and denying existing problems, the gaming community will get a chance to get a little better and cleaner.
If you do not, you will confirm our correctness every time.

Nobody is denying that some people have negative experiences. What they are saying is that those experiences don't mean that the entirety of the system is bad. It does a lot of good. But nobody reports that because that's the norm.

[SoranRigel]

Nobody is denying that some people have negative experiences. What they are saying is that those experiences don't mean that the entirety of the system is bad. It does a lot of good. But nobody reports that because that's the norm.

We've already talked about a lot of alternative systems that work in other games.
Here we offered constructive solutions.
The system that generates bullying and toxicity should be eliminated.

[MomomiMomi]

We've already talked about a lot of alternative systems that work in other games.
Here we offered constructive solutions.
The system that generates bullying and toxicity should be eliminated.

It doesn't generate bullying and toxicity. These are things that exist with or without the system. It isn't the cause of it.

[Miste]

That 's the problem. No matter how many hundreds of people talk about having a problem, it will be beneficial for you to deny it and say that "an isolated experience proves nothing."
This is called "depreciation." Depreciation is in your interest.

I did not deny negative experiences happen, make sure you read thoroughly what I explained in my last post.

"Hundreds of people" doesn't mean much when the game can have three hundred thousand to five hundred thousand (or even more sometimes, one ShB count was around 700,000) of active players playing the game at any given time going by previous census info. This game's active player count fluctuates a lot during the course of the patch cycles, but in general is a very populated game.

To try to help you understand what I was trying to say originally...even if we take the lowest range of active players...100 players having negative experiences with the mentor system out of 300,000 total players is only 0.03% of the player base. This is a VERY small percentage of people apparently affected by the system in a wholly negative way, and it is only one side of the coin. We need more data on how much people receive good help from mentors and how many good mentors there are too to really figure out if the system should just be abolished.

Depreciation is in my interest? This is a large incorrect assumption. You assume I personally care if the mentor system disappears. I kind of don't. It would not affect me in any way, but I am only one person, and I realize that others may be affected and lose the help they gain from the NN etc.

I am simply trying to put forth logic into the situation and explain why people may counter your arguments. It is best not to assume that the sole reason I am countering your stance is because I don't want the mentor system deleted. You would be incorrect.