The problem with the mentor system

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

Changing the symbol wont do any good. Having something to claim by your name, and offering a roulette + glam + mount will always attract people to the mentor program.

If the symbol was a big steaming pile of horse manure, with flies and stink lines added for extra authenticity, then it would change things.

[Reinha]

If the symbol was a big steaming pile of horse manure, with flies and stink lines added for extra authenticity, then it would change things.

I'd gladly wear that as a symbol of the nastiness spewed by those non-mentors who judge the many by the actions of the few. The icon was never the issue. Letting bad apples turn you into one, is.

[MitsukiKimura]

Speaking from a personal experience, novice network is just not a place I'd look to for any advice or etc. It's probably the worst when it should be a good place for beginners to ask for help or advice. I've used to be in it as a mentor, dealt with extreme toxicity in it and left it and never went back. Somewhat I agree most mentors I've seen are not suited to being a mentor but assuming every mentor is like that is invalid. I try to help anyone I can while showing a positive attitude. My advice? Stay out of novice network.

[KageTokage]

It really depends on the server, honestly.

If you're cursed with a NN where the regulars are toxic, then yeah, I'd stay away from it.

[SoranRigel]

Unfortunately, just "leave this place" doesn't work in cases where you encounter toxic mentors (or those who don't wear the crown) in dungeons.

An excellent way out of the situation would be a working "black list". I wrote about this system in another topic. It allows you to blacklist a player you don't want to be in the same group with, and the system permanently excludes them from your selection.

Since the number of players on global servers is really large, this system does not add a waiting time for the formation of a random group.

Update: It's also possible that a large number of blacklisting someone would help to GM pay more attention to investigating reports related to this player's behavior.

[RajNish]

But the icon's purpose is primarily so that a new player can spot someone and know that they should be open to be asked questions.

People farm recommendations not to help others, but to have a shining icon. The system does not work as originally intended. Both sides suffer from this. But of course, many continue to deny the need for change.

Moreover, the aggression with which some opponents of change often respond to me shows their toxicity quite clearly and only confirms my words.

[SieyaM]

In my years on this game I probably played with a good thousand mentors, only a handful of which were an issue. If you keep running into bad mentors, maybe mentors aren't the issue.
Also, so what if a few players farm the crown? It doesn't automatically make them bad mentors. Exacerbated mentors in alliance roulette doesn't mean anything, especially given how hard it is to tell tone over text.
Furthermore, random posts from people on reddit or the forums here also mean absolutely nothing, it's just survivor bias.

The mentor system is absolutely fine as is, NN is fine as is although it may be a little spammy; all questions get answered and mentors regularly go assist sprouts in dungeons etc. Fact is, several sprouts are in this very thread saying it worked great for them.

I wish people could just let this mentorship "failure" fallacy rest in peace.

So what makes you're experience with mentors more valuable or truthful to the situation than people who have had bad experiences with mentors? Both are just personal interactions with people on their data center, neither seems to have any more fact behind it than another.

[SieyaM]

Unfortunately, just "leave this place" doesn't work in cases where you encounter toxic mentors (or those who don't wear the crown) in dungeons.

An excellent way out of the situation would be a working "black list". I wrote about this system in another topic. It allows you to blacklist a player you don't want to be in the same group with, and the system permanently excludes them from your selection.

Since the number of players on global servers is really large, this system does not add a waiting time for the formation of a random group.

Update: It's also possible that a large number of blacklisting someone would help to GM pay more attention to investigating reports related to this player's behavior.

A list like this would also mean that a person who has been blacklisted by enough people would end up waiting longer in queues since there would be a number of people they would be unable to be matched with. That is a good thing too since it would be more incentive for people to try and remain civil to each other

[Hatfright]

A list like this would also mean that a person who has been blacklisted by enough people would end up waiting longer in queues since there would be a number of people they would be unable to be matched with. That is a good thing too since it would be more incentive for people to try and remain civil to each other

Exactly!
/at least 10 characters.

[EaMett]

So what makes you're experience with mentors more valuable or truthful to the situation than people who have had bad experiences with mentors? Both are just personal interactions with people on their data center, neither seems to have any more fact behind it than another.

Because unlike many I've actually been keeping tabs since I started. I always take note of who's wearing a crown when I enter content and what people say. Have been doing it since the first couple of months I started playing, 3+ years ago now since I saw a similar post back then and was questioning whether or not I wanted to enter the program. I've played with a good thousand (and that's an underestimation, more like thousands since it was probably around a thousand by the time I even qualified for mentorship 2 years ago) of mentors in that period and the VAST VAST VAST majority of mentors are just silent in content. They don't say anything unless someone asks or there's an obvious issue in the content being run. The reason for this is that often times if you ask others if they want advice they will just say no.
It's absolutely ignorant and ridiculous to claim that a majority of mentors are an issue as many of the people complaining in here or other posts/threads are doing. Full stop.

Survivor bias on this one is strong. People complain about mentors standing in aoes and playing poorly as if mentors aren't allowed to learn new jobs and tunnel vision like everyone else. People complain about players becoming mentors for the crown like there's some kind of correlation between that and being a terrible toxic (to quote others) mentor. Completely unrelated.

Yes there might be some NN with a base of bad mentors on some server that I may not know of, yes there are definitely some mentors that should be stripped of their title. I've witnessed only a handful myself but willing to concede my experience on aether may be a little better than others (little being the key word since I doubt any delta would be significantly wide, though euro servers with diff languages may have it differently). But anyone claiming a majority of mentors are bad, or claiming that the mentor system is full of toxicity should not be taken seriously. And that's a good chunk of people complaining.

Not saying the game wouldn't benefit from a change. Just saying people need to stop crying wolf.