The problem with the mentor system

[RitsukoSonoda]

The problem with the mentor system is too many people either expect too much out of it or don't actually understand what it's actually for.

As for mentoring itself.

If someone is actually asking for input I have no problems providing it. I rarely provide it unsolicited in game simply because there are too many lazy bad players that have no desire to get better and I choose not to waste my time trying to help people that refuse to help themselves or have any desire to improve. If you don't give a damn about yourself they why should anyone else? And a number of those people are mouthy little brats that think they know everything when it's plainly obvious to anyone with functioning eyes they're completely clueless...

[hynaku]

The only main problem with the mentor system is to many complaining about it. All mentors is there for is to answer questions if ones need help with something.

[RajNish]

The only main problem with the mentor system is to many complaining about it. All mentors is there for is to answer questions if ones need help with something.

Complaints and reports do not arise from scratch.

[hasana]

The only main problem with the mentor system is to many complaining about it. All mentors is there for is to answer questions if ones need help with something.

And you can't even do that right.

[hynaku]

And you can't even do that right.

How would you know since I don't know you and your no where in my database. Bet your one that just complains all the time. I'm not mentor for the rewards don't give care about them. I see far more none mentors being toxic and jerks than mentors being. Most on my server see helping new players. I only ran into couple that's been rude to others. Another thing one complain about not all mentors is pve and pvp mentors there crafting mentors.

[Packetdancer]

So, disclaimer here: I'm not a mentor, and I don't actively aspire to be one. You don't need a crown to be helpful, right?

But here's the thing...

But FF14 desperately needs a chat channel where someone can ask questions.

This. I cannot stress this enough.

People keep focusing on the dungeon experience of the mentor program, but honestly I feel like that's the less important part of it. In part because the dungeon side of things is the one where mentors—or even just helpfule players—can spot someone who might be struggling and offer help proactively; you can ask in Party chat, "Hey, do you mind if I offer one bit of clarifying advice on the fight?" and then when they say "Sure" mention that it can be easier if—for instance—you tank the final boss of Stone Vigil in the center of the arena and explain why. (I have not yet had someone say 'no' to the "Do you mind if I offer..." query, for whatever that's worth.)

But what I've found is that a number of sprouts don't feel like they have a good avenue to ask questions. And not just to ask questions, but to ask for active help. Not just "Can anyone tell me how to do this?", but "I'm having trouble running this particular dungeon, could someone come along and play guide?"

The NN is meant to be the former—the place to ask questions—and the crown is meant to be the same thing; if you see someone chilling by an aetheryte with the crown, you know they're theoretically open to being tapped and asked for help. But it doesn't seem to be working out entirely like that, for whatever reason.

For my part, I've made a cross-world linkshell on Primal; it started a couple of weeks ago as just a random linkshell of friends and people I've met when rolling through the game, but as it's proven the easiest way to coordinate handing off gear or giving a bit of post-run dungeon advice to someone on a different server who still have questions, various sprouts I've helped out have ended up on it.

And what I've discovered is that it's kind of turning into a de-facto tiny part-time newbie network; newer players can ask things questions on that CWLS and the more experienced ones will answer them -- even if those questions are things like "I'm having a lot of trouble with this content, would anyone be willing to run it with me?"

At least two have said that having that linkshell as a sort of 'life preserver' has made their gaming experience a lot less frustrating and a lot more fun. I think the sprouts need something like that, and those who haven't found a good/active FC—or just who have questions when no one in their FC is on—need one that's global.

If the issue with the NN is that people think the criteria for mentors aren't the right ones or aren't finding the appropriate mentors, then maybe the solution is to rework the criteria. But I don't think completely burning the Newbie Network and mentoring system to the ground is necessarily the best course, because then sprouts end up without anywhere they can reach out with questions if they don't happen to have a really helpful FC.

I already hypothesized one possible alternative, back in one of the other various threads about this; it can be found at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing still. I am under no illusions that it's flawless—or even the right path—but it seems to me that there are still good aspects to the mentor system that should be preserved if there were ever to be changes.

(And of course, SquareEnix is under no obligation to listen to any of us, regardless of what happens in this thread or what anyone suggests, so a lot of this is probably just folks blowing off steam...)

[RajNish]

If the issue with the NN is that people think the criteria for mentors aren't the right ones or aren't finding the appropriate mentors, then maybe the solution is to rework the criteria. But I don't think completely burning the Newbie Network and mentoring system to the ground is necessarily the best course, because then sprouts end up without anywhere they can reach out with questions if they don't happen to have a really helpful FC.

On the one hand, I agree with you, and on the other ...

I saw three MMOs where there was no mentoring system and people asked questions and found help in world chat and in dungeons. SE tried to create a global network for helping newcomers by attracting people who like it. But something is clearly going wrong.

I know that there are good mentors and how they try, but with the expansion of the base of players there are more people who parasitize on the system. They don’t help, they farm either recommendations or a (new trend) craft mentoring for crown, and I personally now see a lot of "mentors" in the dungeons who don’t know the basic rules (don’t stay in AOE, wait until the tank pulls, kill adds as soon as possible).

I hope that in the future the SE will take measures that are not limited by the number of recommendations. The recommendations are not relevant, very subjective and do not reflect anything. People leave groups almost instantly; many of them do not pay attention to the co-players.

What I would like to see in this regard:

1. Replace the icon with something more neutral: a book, glasses, a watering can.
2. Focus on the number of completed dungeons for PVE mentors (2,000 dungeons, for example), completed role quests and completed relevant content.
3. A separate option for reporting on mentors.
4. A working blacklist that will allow you to no longer meet with these "mentors" and other bad players in the roulette groups.

[RajNish]

Another wonderful person with a crown. Except that he pulled the boss before the whole group was in place and ready for battle.

[SoranRigel]

There is a steady trend in this topic: those, who advocate for maintaining a mentor system, discount the experience of others, use dirty discussion techniques like “your evidence is not evidence” or call opponents, who talk about their real negative experiences, a “crying wolves”.

All this suggests one thing: the system of toxic "elite", named "mentors", should be immediately canceled. There are many who can help others, and a crown is not needed for this. Thanks to those experienced players who helped me more than once, explained and supported me. Many of them, being "mentors" by rank, are afraid to wear the crown, because it has become a symbol of toxicity. There are many reference resources, including this forum and youtube.

We do not need people who assert their right to humiliate others for the sake of the crown, and shut our mouths.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

There is a steady trend in this topic: those, who advocate for maintaining a mentor system, discount the experience of others, use dirty discussion techniques like “your evidence is not evidence” or call opponents, who talk about their real negative experiences, a “crying wolves”.

All this suggests one thing: the system of toxic "elite", named "mentors", should be immediately canceled. There are many who can help others, and a crown is not needed for this. Thanks to those experienced players who helped me more than once, explained and supported me. Many of them, being "mentors" by rank, are afraid to wear the crown, because it has become a symbol of toxicity. There are many reference resources, including this forum and youtube.

We do not need people who assert their right to humiliate others for the sake of the crown, and shut our mouths.

At the same time, you are discounting the experiences of others. It's a vicious circle.