Discussion about recast timers

[Answa]

A simple change would be to have all the 15m abilities share cooldowns across jobs. So if you're on BLM and your Burst is available, if you switch to WHM you're Benediction will be available. If you've got 10 minutes left on your Benediction and you switch to MNK, you'll have 10 minutes left on your Hundred Fists.

That's the fix I want to see since the inclusion of 15-min abilities. The 5-min recast for Raise doesn't bother me, really. It's the 15-min recasts that make my heart cry.

Wow, fly off the handle much?
Yeah smart guy, its called a macro...my macro that changes from whatever class I am to bard.
I do one touch macro from WHM/CNJ to ARC/BRD. I have a job/class/gear change macro for job/class changes, and gear sets.

That being said, it doesn't change the fact that CNJ-ARC uses the exact same raise, but it restarts the CD timer when you switch.
CNJ-ARC-BRD still uses the the same raise, it still resets every change. Not to mention, I didn't realize i needed to explain to you, the that to go from CNJ-BRD you needed to be ARC in between. Which does not change the fact that the same rais restes to the full CD when changing.

No need to toss profanities out at others because your having comprehension difficulties.

Yes, your macro does this: Change MH to some bow, then /job which changes you to BRD. So even if it's, for you, a one-button thing, it's still old class/job >> ARC >> BRD. That is precisely the only reason why I included ARC in the list of classes/jobs you'd have to have Raise equipped.

And yes, recasts timers are still shared across everything as long as it's equipped on each class or job you go through until you reach your destination.

[Neptune]

I wasn't mocking you. It was a serious question.

Maybe you should assess your serious question. Why did you ask me how many other games let you change jobs?

the only real issues i have is when changing to a craft to repair gear for others it resets my timer. if i have the level required it'd be nice to just have a repair slot in your gear that doesn't change your class in the field, but allows you to make repairs without changing off your job.

the only other thing i'd like to see is all of the jobs 15 min abilities be on a set timer. if i have 3:30 left on my timer for benediction and change to black mage i'd still have 3:30 on my burst instead of the entire 15. it would stop abuse that way since i would have already went through the 15 min cooldown even though it was through a combination of 2 different jobs.



i haven't tested to see if it's still the same, but it was if you had raise in different spots in your action bar it would reset even if it was on the other class. like if cnj had it in spot 1 and arc had it in spot 10 it would reset, but if they both had it in spot 1 it didn't reset. that could be part of the reason some says it resets and others say it doesn't.

try testing that and see if that helps, but like i said it may have been changed, but an idea to try.

^^^ I think we have a winner here. I vote this for compromise. Although I don't see why recast timers shouldn't be abolished.

yeah, i'm not a programmer so idk how hard that'd be to implement either, but it seems like something that would be a good compromise. it would stop the abuse by making people wait the 15 minutes even if it was across multiple classes.

I am a programmer, and it would take maybe 1 day to change how the timers work. They probably could just add variables to the object that stores actions and abilities to implement darkstarpoet's suggestion, or it would be even faster to just abolish the recast timers entirely.

[Griss]

I am a programmer, and it would take maybe 1 day to change how the timers work. They probably could just add variables to the object that stores actions and abilities to implement darkstarpoet's suggestion, or it would be even faster to just abolish the recast timers entirely.

A global timer on some ability's would defiantly be a good thing. Though i do wonder what kind of jiggering they would have to do server side to get it to work right for every player.

[darkstarpoet1]

^^^ I think we have a winner here. I vote this for compromise. Although I don't see why recast timers shouldn't be abolished.

the only reason i am kinda skiddish about the removing the timers completely is that it could lead to abuse if the timers reset each time you changed. say if everytime you went white mage your benediction was ready. it could lead to the situation where a mage uses it and then just unequips the job stone and then equips it again. they technically changed off the job and would become the norm for things like av. yes, you could not change during battle, but having benediction for each and every encounter in there would make it too easy.

it could also lead to a group that have all 50's just use a job for one room until they used their 15 minute ability and then change to another so they had it the next as well. it would allow the high level parties with multiple 50's to just bum rush dungeons and massively abuse the system.

that is why i mentioned the shared cooldowns. it would stop the abuse because if you used one 15 minute then you couldn't use the next for 15 minutes no matter what job you went to because the timer would be across each class/job. i could just imagine the party shouts if each time you switched a job you were instantly ready to use the ability "Party 4/8 All 50 Battle Classes Requires /tell".

[Neptune]

the only reason i am kinda skiddish about the removing the timers completely is that it could lead to abuse if the timers reset each time you changed. say if everytime you went white mage your benediction was ready. it could lead to the situation where a mage uses it and then just unequips the job stone and then equips it again. they technically changed off the job and would become the norm for things like av. yes, you could not change during battle, but having benediction for each and every encounter in there would make it too easy.

it could also lead to a group that have all 50's just use a job for one room until they used their 15 minute ability and then change to another so they had it the next as well. it would allow the high level parties with multiple 50's to just bum rush dungeons and massively abuse the system.

that is why i mentioned the shared cooldowns. it would stop the abuse because if you used one 15 minute then you couldn't use the next for 15 minutes no matter what job you went to because the timer would be across each class/job. i could just imagine the party shouts if each time you switched a job you were instantly ready to use the ability "Party 4/8 All 50 Battle Classes Requires /tell".

Another great point. Although in FFXI jobs didn't share 2 hour timers. Whether they're shared 15 mins or "remembered" 15 mins, both would be a lot better than what we have now. I wouldn't consider it "abuse" if you can multi-class your way out of situations with 15 minute abilities. How long did it take to level all those classes to 50, unlock the jobs, do the quests, etc? Is it appropriate to think of all that hard work as not justifying some kind of reward, like the use of all of your abilities?

[darkstarpoet1]

Another great point. Although in FFXI jobs didn't share 2 hour timers. Whether they're shared 15 mins or "remembered" 15 mins, both would be a lot better than what we have now. I wouldn't consider it "abuse" if you can multi-class your way out of situations with 15 minute abilities. How long did it take to level all those classes to 50, unlock the jobs, do the quests, etc? Is it appropriate to think of all that hard work as not justifying some kind of reward, like the use of all of your abilities?

well as someone with all 50's it would be beneficial for me if they made that change. the reason i am against it is the abuse that could come from it and the parties made up of only people with all 50's. i was looking at the long term for the game by going against what would benefit me. if it could lead to situations in which people with only 1 r50 class gets left out of parties because they can't change on the fly then it would hurt the game in the long term.

[Neptune]

Because of your "Good Samaritan" example.



How many games let you change your job on one character to begin with? There are probably only a handful of them, FFXI being the most recognized, at least within this community.

Consider the same situation in FFXI. You would have to return to your mog house, change job, return to the dead person, raise, return to mog house, change back to the job you were playing, then continue on your way again. Not only does it take you the same amount of time, or perhaps even longer to raise this person, but you'll also likely use a warp cudgel and an OP warp / teleport.

Of the few games that allow multiple jobs/classes per character, how many let you change your job right on the spot? None that I can think of. So, would you rather

A. Do all of those steps above (which probably takes even longer than 5 minutes).

or

B. Change your job right on the spot and just wait for 5 minutes for the recast timer to reset?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a big fan of recast timers either, especially on weapon skills. But, with the way the game is designed, something's gotta give. Fresh recast timers on job changes "fit" with the armory system. The only thing I would change is to have our 15 min skills share 1 timer (like 2 hours in FFXI).

I love this post. Because I think everything you said is so disappointingly thought-through. I read this, and I think to myself, why the hell are you thinking this way Meowy Wowie? I expect you to want more for yourself and expect more out of the games you play. You said "something's gotta give" and I think it is your.. self-worth? that needs to improve. I wonder if you have asked yourself if comparing the class system of FFXI and FFXIV is worthwhile.. as if they are written in stone. Why would you think this way? I want you to imagine a game in where the Good Samaritan can raise someone by switching to another class and instantly casting raise.. tell me why you don't want that game.

well as someone with all 50's it would be beneficial for me if they made that change. the reason i am against it is the abuse that could come from it and the parties made up of only people with all 50's. i was looking at the long term for the game by going against what would benefit me. if it could lead to situations in which people with only 1 r50 class gets left out of parties because they can't change on the fly then it would hurt the game in the long term.

Quite honestly the only way to prevent "abuse" is to give players incentives to treat each other good. If you don't have Sentinel you're kind of screwed in Ifrit / Moogle. The dev team hasn't done anything to give players any kind of incentive to kill all 4 nails in Ifrit to prevent requiring people to have Sentinel. Imagine if downing the 4 nails increased the drop rate. Suddenly you would never need Sentinel. By my assessment, it's the dev team, not the player's, that have the final say in how people with 1 class get treated while playing their game.

[darkstarpoet1]

If you don't have Sentinel you're kind of screwed in Ifrit / Moogle. The dev team hasn't done anything to give players any kind of incentive to kill all 4 nails in Ifrit to prevent requiring people to have Sentinel. Imagine if downing the 4 nails increased the drop rate. Suddenly you would never need Sentinel. By my assessment, it's the dev team, not the player's, that have the final say in how people with 1 class get treated while playing their game.

this is the problem with human nature. they could make it to where everyone didn't need sentinel just like there already is. if you take down more nails you take less damage so someone without sentinel could survive hellfire just fine. the problem is people take the path of least resistance so they found out that by using sentinel they could get the same results for less work. now with sentinel you can survive hellfire and taking down 2 nails just as easily as you can without sentinel and taking down 4.

the more changes they make the more people are going to look for an easy way workaround. they hunt for the easiest methods to do things instead of doing the content the way it was meant to be played. if not you would see parties all the time running one of every class/job, but instead you see parties of 5 thm/blm, arc, or lnc and whatever class/job you stack that makes the content the easiest.

[MeowyWowie]

Maybe you should assess your serious question. Why did you ask me how many other games let you change jobs?

Because of your "Good Samaritan" example.

Do you feel like you're abusing yourself if you see a dead person on the side of the road and decide to change jobs so you can raise them and then have to wait.. 5 minutes? I have a feeling if the Good Samaritan had to wait 5 minutes to raise someone he might have been remembered as the Cursing Samaritan.

How many games let you change your job on one character to begin with? There are probably only a handful of them, FFXI being the most recognized, at least within this community.

Consider the same situation in FFXI. You would have to return to your mog house, change job, return to the dead person, raise, return to mog house, change back to the job you were playing, then continue on your way again. Not only does it take you the same amount of time, or perhaps even longer to raise this person, but you'll also likely use a warp cudgel and an OP warp / teleport.

Of the few games that allow multiple jobs/classes per character, how many let you change your job right on the spot? None that I can think of. So, would you rather

A. Do all of those steps above (which probably takes even longer than 5 minutes).

or

B. Change your job right on the spot and just wait for 5 minutes for the recast timer to reset?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a big fan of recast timers either, especially on weapon skills. But, with the way the game is designed, something's gotta give. Fresh recast timers on job changes "fit" with the armory system. The only thing I would change is to have our 15 min skills share 1 timer (like 2 hours in FFXI).