Red Mage is top tier - [job effectiveness = player skill]

[BloodRubyXII]

Only joking.

The literal nightmare of finding TEA groups that'll take me, but only if I swap to Summoner. 473 logs for SMN vs 26 for RDM.

I started late but I remember the first few days of opening Twitch and all except one group I watched progress - had a Summoner. I never saw a single Red Mage, first one I saw was the one bouncing on Xeno's stream with the weapon and I'm convinced he only did it because it's a sick meme.

Nothing justifies how badly we're getting taxed for having Embolden and Verraise at this point when SMN still exists in the state it's in. It's not to say that SMN won't get looked at and absolutely fisted into the ground at the next "major" opportunity, it's the fact that it's not seen as urgent enough when the first day of 5.10 the best SMNs literally flocked to this section to tell SE how big of a mistake they made and how bad it was for statics as a whole, who would be absolutely out of their mind not to take one, or put an RDM in that same spot because whichever way you look at it, we share the same raid spot, and SMN does everything we do but better except resurrect which doesn't justify the colossal representation and power gap between the two jobs. At least SMN used to be remotely difficult to optimize and have gigabrain/annoying/bloatGivingTheImpressionOfDifficult opener so it could ALMOST be justified by anyone who licks their windows enough to the point they want to play it.

I don't care if you have to make RDM difficult. Be my guest, it's a one dimensional stale job that I wouldn't play if I didn't like the hybrid aesthetic of it. I'd love to have more to (ver)do. Can take Verraise away, I doubt we'll miss it if we get something worth it in return. "Physical range have to deal with this too - tell us something about our ridiculous movement tax whilst you bleed vitriol like a petulant entitled schoolchild that's dropped all her sweets". You guys share a spot with Dancer, and what's even more ridiculous is you can take a Dancer, and still take a SMN anyway because their damage is that good and they'll still get the party buff regardless. For our RDPS to get full value, we actually need you, that's sadder than a dog death in a movie babe.

Yes I am beating the horse again. Yes, I am whinging. Yes I am being an absolute baby about this and will gladly admit it before any of you get the chance. I will break into your house when I'm done and wipe my tears with your dirty socks.

PS: The title is pretty ironic because it's almost a direct counter to me complaining, the job has an exceptionally low skill ceiling whilst also being incredibly ineffective in it's current state; it's almost fitting.

[Animadragon]

You said it about as well as I could, you are whinging and beating the dead horse on why you think RDM is ineffective.

There is no content that an RDM will render unclearable, and RDM is in no way unviable. I certainly won't be the last person saying this in this thread. SE will not make huge balance changes immediately, no matter how "urgent" we deem the changes to be likely because they won't have enough data to verify that they do need to make changes and that we're not just complaining for the sake of it.

I can't give numbers on TEA clears that had an RDM but no SMN, but that speaks volumes more on the specific power SMN has especially in TEA's setup of multiple 2-target phases. It's an unfortunate consequence of SMN being powerful that RDM is left in the wayside but that does not mean party comps with RDM are suddenly unusable. I think the problem is how the community perceives how a party should be composed. The long standing "meta" of BRD DRG NIN has led people to believe that compositions like 1 melee is far less viable than 2 Melee 1 Caster 1 Range.

By the way, the one RDM you saw bouncing on Xeno's stream is Jump Man, a high-level RDM player and a former RDM mentor of The Balance discord, and he has managed to clear TEA as RDM.

As for RDM changes to make it more difficult, more engaging, etc., I can't really say as much as any change toward any direction is gonna make people mad either way.

[Silverquick]

Yeah I'm just not seeing much difference in Single Target damage between RDM and SMN either.

AoE and Multi-target damage... oh yeah SMN comes out definitively ahead.
And its not like RDM sucks at AoE either, a pair of RDMs can clear Trash mobs like its nothing.

[Neela]

can't understand the wuzz Nin, Brd & Drg - were always part of the meta... now a dbl cast comp is as powerful everybody scream unbalance... its just shifting for once, so what's the deal? : /

[Akiudo]

can't understand the wuzz Nin, Brd & Drg - were always part of the meta... now a dbl cast comp is as powerful everybody scream unbalance... its just shifting for once, so what's the deal? : /

1. people screamed about nin/brd/drg all the time, so nothings changed in that regard aside from the target

2. given the class distribution we had back during heavensward/stormblood it made perfect sense to take exactly 1 brd/mch, and mch simply wasn't fun during stormblood so really, bard was mostly meta by default instead of simply being way better than the competition (that being mch)

3. "at least" the reason for especially brd/dragoon being so strong was this insane synergy of crit, crit and more crit on top aswell as the piercing debuff, i'm not saying that was a good thing, it was a terrible thing, but at least one could say square went wrong while balancing classes in a group setting instead of simply in a vacuum, smn as is is insanely strong simply by existing AND making redmage all but obsolete if you got the choice for a smn.

4. complaining about other classes aside it is totally fair to argue "my class is too weak" that argument may or may not have merit, but in itself its a fair argument to make and in case of redmage i would agree, even if smn was slightly weaker redmage also should be somewhat stronger

[Pepsi_Plunge]

Yeah I'm just not seeing much difference in Single Target damage between RDM and SMN either.

But there is. Let's just take E2S, a fight with only one single target: Max Dmg for SMN on FFlogs is 16,603.04, RDM 15,876.91. Median is 14,2k for SMN, RDM 13,1k

[Neela]

Yeah I'm just not seeing much difference in Single Target damage between RDM and SMN either.

this is why I said u shouldnt talk about smn at all...

[Silverquick]

But there is. Let's just take E2S, a fight with only one single target: Max Dmg for SMN on FFlogs is 16,603.04, RDM 15,876.91. Median is 14,2k for SMN, RDM 13,1k

That's great and all.

But after personal experience now with RDM.

I simply do not and have never spent the majority of my time DPSing in a Raid. I'm doing one of three things, my time is divided between DPSing, Healing, and Raising.

So I cannot put much stock in FFlogs when it comes to measuring DPS from a RDM.

[Neela]

That's great and all.

But after personal experience now with RDM.

I simply do not and have never spent the majority of my time DPSing in a Raid. I'm doing one of three things, my time is divided between DPSing, Healing, and Raising.

So I cannot put much stock in FFlogs when it comes to measuring DPS from a RDM.

Thx, for disqualifying yourself for endgame debats with this comment.

[Silverquick]

this why I said u shouldnt talk about smn at all...

Neela... who do you think you're fooling here. You're been openly attacking me regardless of what I say or any answer I give. If I said the sky was blue you'd say it was "you who told me that".

You have a personal issue with me and it has nothing to do with anything I say and it has nothing to do with "Summoner" or "Red Mage".
But if you thought you were going to "chase me off the boards"... how'd that work out for you last time?

Yeah it didn't. You are wasting your time, and mine.