Removing Auto Crits and Direct Hits from WAR

[BarretOblivion]

Snip.

So at least someone is pointing out the story I have always thought of as to why WAR got shafted so hard in ShB. Back at the end of SB I thought WAR was starting to get really stale to me, but I did agree many tanks should have been brought up to match WAR, but I thought this should have been done that expansion, not in ShB. In ShB created an issue with SE blatantly ignoring WAR for GNB and then remembering last second WAR existed. Its true, SE hated WAR, I think Yoshi even said so a few times back at Fanfest when someone asked about Tank Raid Acc and he specifically blamed WAR as to why they hadn't done anything at the time. Now look, if you have an issue, than fix the issue and nerf WAR if you had to, but what they did was insulting. You pay for the expansion you get on your class to see how it gained power and evolved and you end up realizing, nothing really changed, you just got was necessary to make sure you aren't completely forgotten by all other tank classes

And this is the point though, if you don't come out and say 'hey' at least there are issues with WAR on how it runs right now and needs be improved, SE will just keep WAR as 4.2 WAR when 6.0 comes.

They did a bad job with 4.2 WAR DRK kinda proves that as DRK Delirum is IR, but DRK is able to keep WAR's damage... without the need for forced DH, Crit, to keep its damage consistant. The major issue was always "hey, WAR has almost no OGCDs during its rotation". I understand some would say DRK is split, but one of the reasons is because it became a WAR knock off with Delirum and it losing once again, cool skills people enjoyed for no reason.

[Poison_Rose]

Snip.

Excellent points, as always. I agree.

I personally like the low APM requirement + not having to care about bv / chain / litany, so the fact that they do basically nothing for me doesn't bother me in the slightest.

[Kalise]

I think that WAR most definitely should keep its DCH's.

For one, the guaranteed DH's means that WAR is one of the very, very few jobs in the game that doesn't simply meld Crit + DH without a second thought, which is always nice.

Another, is WAR's identity since its inception has been great honking crits, that's just what is expected of the job. Just like I personally associate DRK with its MP management and to a lesser extent its SkS (Though that aspect of Blood Weapon died with ShB when we got Dark Warrior...) or how PLD has its spells.

However, I personally wouldn't mind changes to things like IR and the now very common "Burst phase where you just smash one button over and over without a care in the world". It's one of the reasons why I enjoy GNB so much, because its burst combo doesn't give you free skills for the duration meaning you have to actually set up your resources beforehand you don't get to just freely press No Mercy and then Gnashing Fang > Burst Strike x However many GCD's you can fit in (To say nothing about slotting in Sonic Break)

Like, I enjoy the Inner Chaos thing. Popping Infuriate to get a single DCH. Which can be timed well, such as after popping NF. I also enjoyed Berserk back before IR because it also had that aspect of setting up your resources for maximum effect.

That kind of thing is good as it is more engaging than just mindlessly pressing your CD when it comes up and then getting free spam for the duration.

[Aurelius2625]

How was WAR's identity since inception "big honking crits"? IR's change was not until 4.2... Seems like 2.0 and 3.0 had different ideas...that's four year's worth of content without this design, and honestly, the IR change was a bandaid fix because SE had NO CLUE what to do with WAR. Anyone who praises this change is out of their mind. This is the VERY SOURCE of why WAR is so dumbed down. It can't be anything BUT a spammer class because it can chain DHCrits. That's why outside of IR, it's boring and pathetic for its gameplay loop, the same disease that has now infected DRK but to a lesser extent.

There is NOTHING GOOD about IR or IC, they are LAZY skills that have affected more jobs, such as MCH, with Reassemble... a BORING ability, this is what WAR has done to this game.

The only redeeming quality about DRK is that it doesn't have this nonsense, so you still have to play around buffs and time your skills. With WAR, you IR no matter what. The ONLY thing you do is maintain storm's eye. That's it. That's acceptable? That's okay? No. That's lazy design.

PLD has unique and interesting ways that it optimizes its damage and rotation. GNB has interesting interactions with with optimization in high end content. WAR has...what exactly? Put eye up, spam FC and IR?

No. This lazy, pathetic disease excuse for "design" has to die with WAR's current incarnation.

Take one look at the balance for optimizations for PLD last tier, or GNB, or DRK to a lesser extent, and you will see that I'm right. Look at the depth, not that it's terribly amazing, but it's far more than WAR's "Make sure you have eye up, then spam FC under IR, repeat" gameplay.

[Kalise]

How was WAR's identity since inception "big honking crits"? IR's change was not until 4.2...

Meta has always been about getting a bunch of Crit and DH for big damage.

Crits and DH's with old Berserk's 50% damage boost = big honking crits.

Just because IR's forced DCH's came in 4.2 doesn't mean WAR's weren't doing big honking crits before then, especially when you factored in Defiance's crit boost from Wrath stacks.

[BarretOblivion]

I think that WAR most definitely should keep its DCH's.

For one, the guaranteed DH's means that WAR is one of the very, very few jobs in the game that doesn't simply meld Crit + DH without a second thought, which is always nice.

Another, is WAR's identity since its inception has been great honking crits, that's just what is expected of the job. Just like I personally associate DRK with its MP management and to a lesser extent its SkS (Though that aspect of Blood Weapon died with ShB when we got Dark Warrior...) or how PLD has its spells.

However, I personally wouldn't mind changes to things like IR and the now very common "Burst phase where you just smash one button over and over without a care in the world". It's one of the reasons why I enjoy GNB so much, because its burst combo doesn't give you free skills for the duration meaning you have to actually set up your resources beforehand you don't get to just freely press No Mercy and then Gnashing Fang > Burst Strike x However many GCD's you can fit in (To say nothing about slotting in Sonic Break)

Like, I enjoy the Inner Chaos thing. Popping Infuriate to get a single DCH. Which can be timed well, such as after popping NF. I also enjoyed Berserk back before IR because it also had that aspect of setting up your resources for maximum effect.

That kind of thing is good as it is more engaging than just mindlessly pressing your CD when it comes up and then getting free spam for the duration.

Uhhh, yes you do need to think about your Crit. That's the most important of all the melds you need to have for WAR. The only difference between WAR and other tanks is you meld DET instead of DH.

[Rasikko]

All I know is, I feel honored to have posted in a thread that President Obama posted in.

[Kewitt]

I don't like counting on others to time my skip dmg.

[Nedkel]

Uhhh, yes you do need to think about your Crit. That's the most important of all the melds you need to have for WAR. The only difference between WAR and other tanks is you meld DET instead of DH.

You dont meld DET as your primary stat. o.o

Crit still delivers more.

How was WAR's identity since inception "big honking crits"? IR's change was not until 4.2... Seems like 2.0 and 3.0 had different ideas...that's four year's worth of content without this design, and honestly, the IR change was a bandaid fix because SE had NO CLUE what to do with WAR. Anyone who praises this change is out of their mind. This is the VERY SOURCE of why WAR is so dumbed down. It can't be anything BUT a spammer class because it can chain DHCrits. That's why outside of IR, it's boring and pathetic for its gameplay loop, the same disease that has now infected DRK but to a lesser extent.

There is NOTHING GOOD about IR or IC, they are LAZY skills that have affected more jobs, such as MCH, with Reassemble... a BORING ability, this is what WAR has done to this game.

The only redeeming quality about DRK is that it doesn't have this nonsense, so you still have to play around buffs and time your skills. With WAR, you IR no matter what. The ONLY thing you do is maintain storm's eye. That's it. That's acceptable? That's okay? No. That's lazy design.

PLD has unique and interesting ways that it optimizes its damage and rotation. GNB has interesting interactions with with optimization in high end content. WAR has...what exactly? Put eye up, spam FC and IR?

No. This lazy, pathetic disease excuse for "design" has to die with WAR's current incarnation.

Take one look at the balance for optimizations for PLD last tier, or GNB, or DRK to a lesser extent, and you will see that I'm right. Look at the depth, not that it's terribly amazing, but it's far more than WAR's "Make sure you have eye up, then spam FC under IR, repeat" gameplay.

You could play all those 3 tanks, whats wrong with one tank being easy to manage and less complicated?
Is it lazy? Sure
All i want from war is good amount of healing like it used to have with no restrictions whatsoever.

[Hanayumi]

War is slowly crawling up in dps because of how well it works with crit, should get pretty close to the other tanks late in 5.X. Also yeah... wish it had a bit more healing to it, nascent is just so late in level, running low level stuff definitely isnt how it use to be. Tbh all tanks could use a heal, shield, or something, with their aoes.