Removing Auto Crits and Direct Hits from WAR

[Shurrikhan]

That's fair but that means they would might have to rework how all indirect party buffs work just for inner release, which is very unlikely.

It's not just Inner Release, though, in the long run. Any and all skills that guarantee any normally %chance effect would benefit from such a change.

[ForteNightshade]

Removing direct crits from IR/IC would change absolutely nothing of the rotation nor how the job plays. On top of that, WAR is only unable to benefit from 3 out of the 8 raid buffs (Chain Strat, Litany, B Voice) and of those three, one of them (B Voice) is already significantly reduced in efficacy for tanks due to the much lower stat budget of direct hit that tanks have in comparison to DPS, which totals out more accurately to 2.5 out of 8 raid buffs that WAR cannot benefit from. This is a completely acceptable loss for what the job gains from having guaranteed direct critical hits; that being consistency. Warrior's burst damage is extremely consistent due to this, not to mention the fact that IR/IC guaranteeing direct critical hits is a unique aspect to Warrior, and in an age where people seem to complain about jobs, especially tanks, all playing so similarly to one another, this uniqueness is a welcome factor.

TL;DR - No.

A unique aspect that requires it to be the only tank of four that melds Determination as Direct Hit is completely worthless. Not having to sacrifice damage on the other three tanks makes this worth it, imo.

[Ultimatecalibur]

A unique aspect that requires it to be the only tank of four that melds Determination as Direct Hit is completely worthless. Not having to sacrifice damage on the other three tanks makes this worth it, imo.

That is pretty much only a problem due to them mangling the addition of Direct Hit during Stormblood. Direct Hit was original going to be the DpS' exclusive forth stat (paralleling Tenacity being Tank exclusive and Piety being Healer exclusive). The problem occurred due to them just replacing all Accuracy on all gear with Direct Hit rather than rebalancing all the 2.X to 3.X tank gear with Accuracy on it.

[RavenFall_]

It was mentioned that it's a DPS loss, and I pointed out how it's a more or less irrelevant one. Also, no, that "100 DPS" does not mean anything when aiming for high parses. I've been playing a lot of Dark Knight in Hades lately for a change of pace to the mindless mount grind, and I'm still completely capable of pulling orange/pink on that job with only a few DH melds (pieces that are used by DRK and only DRK).

For any potential curiosity, my stat spread on DRK.

Strength - 4,155
Crit - 3,589
Det - 2,157
DH - 560
SkS - 1,571

You will notice that my DH is around half what it should be for a tank that doesn't share gear with WAR, and my average DH rate over a fight is usually around 2%, with only one or two singular direct crits in the majority of cases. Doesn't prevent me from doing well. So, if you're doing lower than you want due to melding Det and not DH, that's a problem with you, not the stats or your gear.



WAR should be 2nd on DPS because it offers the least to the party of all tanks, barring GNB. Thus meaning that the only tank that should do more DPS than it is GNB as a result of this. PLD has a significant amount of party utility and should be beneath WAR in terms of DPS due to that.

Sure the utility argument is reasonable. The gap between their utility is so big that war should be given something to compensate for it, to balance the tanks out more. However, paldin has more going on in it's rotation so I don't think simple potency buffs should be enough to put war ahead. I can't concede that the simplest rotation should do the 2nd most damage, even factoring in utility. For war to be ahead, in my opinion it would need a bigger kit and or a more skill intensive rotation. You need to factor in not just utility but the effort that goes into one's rotation. On the basis of utility alone is a weak argument, I believe the disparity in dps is justified because one tank should not have to do less work to output more damage.

[Lucy_Pyre]

Sure the utility argument is reasonable. The gap between their utility is so big that war should be given something to compensate for it, to balance the tanks out more. However, paldin has more going on in it's rotation so I don't think simple potency buffs should be enough to put war ahead. I can't concede that the simplest rotation should do the 2nd most damage, even factoring in utility. For war to be ahead, in my opinion it would need a bigger kit and or a more skill intensive rotation. You need to factor in not just utility but the effort that goes into one's rotation. On the basis of utility alone is a weak argument, I believe the disparity in dps is justified because one tank should not have to do less work to output more damage.

Paladin with all of its utility is already the single most popular tank with Dark Knight coming in at a strong second. It doing a little bit less damage will not affect that in any way and, in fact, pushing Warrior past it to be 2nd in tank DPS will give a bit more of variety in tank comps, as running GNB and/or WAR will now be a little bit more favorable.

[RavenFall_]

Paladin with all of its utility is already the single most popular tank with Dark Knight coming in at a strong second. It doing a little bit less damage will not affect that in any way and, in fact, pushing Warrior past it to be 2nd in tank DPS will give a bit more of variety in tank comps, as running GNB and/or WAR will now be a little bit more favorable.

I don't believe that having a little more dps will solve the popularity problem. for people to pick one tank over the other the dps gap would have to be significant. If paladin is made to have slightly less dps than warrior, much won't change it'll still have more utility with slightly lower dps, it would still seem like the better choice to many ppl. The popularity disparity exists because people subjectively think that war is the dullest tank and I agree. If you want war to be more prevalent in party comps then argue for a more intricate and fulfilling rotation.

[Lucy_Pyre]

I don't believe that having a little more dps will solve the popularity problem. for people to pick one tank over the other the dps gap would have to be significant. If paladin is made to have slightly less dps than warrior, much won't change it'll still have more utility with slightly lower dps, it would still seem like the better choice to many ppl. The popularity disparity exists because people subjectively think that war is the dullest tank and I agree. If you want war to be more prevalent in party comps then argue for a more intricate and fulfilling rotation.

The rotation is perfectly fine as is, all the job needs are some minor potency buffs. I don't think WAR needs to be on PLD's level of popularity. All I care about is proper balance.

[Nedkel]

But why would you meld det instead of crit on war?
Crit melds does slightly better on guaranteed crits and without them. Check the numbers and intervals again.

[ForteNightshade]

But why would you meld det instead of crit on war?
Crit melds does slightly better on guaranteed crits and without them. Check the numbers and intervals again.

You don't? You meld Det over Direct Hit because the latter is worthless on Warrior but better on the other thing tanks.

I never said not to meld Crit. So I have no idea where you're getting that.

[Terkhev]

although there are some people who picked up warrior only recently, who are against that and for some reason they are very vocal about it.

I see nobody even bothered to respond to that, but I'm not such a nice person, so...
Bullshit. Not a single old WAR player I know defended 4.0 and only few of them prefered HW version over 4.2. Me included.
Seriously, goin on this funny "old guard" trip is so lame and childish I'm not even sure how to comment it without getting banned. I don't want to attack you personally, because, unlike you, I'd rather discuss points and not the person who made them.

OT: Removing guarntees DCrit is not bad idea itself, and I absolutely agree with gauge bonus. But I think we first need to move some FC potency into baisc combo.