Removing Auto Crits and Direct Hits from WAR

[RavenFall_]

Removing direct crits from IR/IC would change absolutely nothing of the rotation nor how the job plays. On top of that, WAR is only unable to benefit from 3 out of the 8 raid buffs (Chain Strat, Litany, B Voice) and of those three, one of them (B Voice) is already significantly reduced in efficacy for tanks due to the much lower stat budget of direct hit that tanks have in comparison to DPS, which totals out more accurately to 2.5 out of 8 raid buffs that WAR cannot benefit from. This is a completely acceptable loss for what the job gains from having guaranteed direct critical hits; that being consistency. Warrior's burst damage is extremely consistent due to this, not to mention the fact that IR/IC guaranteeing direct critical hits is a unique aspect to Warrior, and in an age where people seem to complain about jobs, especially tanks, all playing so similarly to one another, this uniqueness is a welcome factor.

TL;DR - No.

What changes would you like to see to warrior's kit then? I've already expressed my opinion on how war seems very dull in Shadowbringers. I'm not asking for it to become too complex or make it mimic dps jobs, but give it something new and unique so we don't only do 40+ fell cleaves and a million storm's paths' in one fight. Maybe another ogcd or DoT, just a kit that isn't such a meme.

[Lucy_Pyre]

At this point, the only reason they have auto crits is to give the illusion of feeling powerful, nothing more. The reason? Simply put, right now WARs meld determination instead of crit/dhit like the other tanks because of this. If auto crits were removed, WARs would start melding crit/dhit again, and thus reduce the utility of battle litany etc as you mentioned already. Either way, it balances out, so its best to keep the auto crits and thus the illusion of power in the hands of casual players, instead of taking something away that would otherwise change very little.

Uh, WAR still melds crit like every other job. It doesn't meld direct hit because the stat doesn't benefit its primary damage source, but if you aren't melding crit then you're doing something very wrong.

What changes would you like to see to warrior's kit then? I've already expressed my opinion on how war seems very dull in Shadowbringers. I'm not asking for it to become too complex or make it mimic dps jobs, but give it something new and unique so we don't only do 40+ fell cleaves and a million storm's paths' in one fight. Maybe another ogcd or DoT, just a kit that isn't such a meme.

I don't think Warrior's kit needs changed at all, frankly. I am perfectly content and happy with how the job functions in its current state. The only thing I would want to see changed about WAR currently are some minor potency buffs to bring its DPS output into second place of the tanks, rather than dead last as it currently is. Because there is frankly no reason or excuse that Paladin should be doing more DPS than Warrior.

A unique aspect that requires it to be the only tank of four that melds Determination as Direct Hit is completely worthless. Not having to sacrifice damage on the other three tanks makes this worth it, imo.

The amount of DPS non-WAR tanks lose by having Det melds over DH is extremely minor. We're talking within the sub-100 DPS range here, probably more accurately sub-50 DPS. It's a damage loss, yes, but it's such an insignificantly minor one that it makes very little difference. If the difference between your party clearing versus hitting enrage is because your PLD/GNB/DRK did 50-100 less DPS due to having an omnitank set with Det melds, well, that's telling of a larger issue with your party as a whole.

[ForteNightshade]

The amount of DPS non-WAR tanks lose by having Det melds over DH is extremely minor. We're talking within the sub-100 DPS range here, probably more accurately sub-50 DPS. It's a damage loss, yes, but it's such an insignificantly minor one that it makes very little difference. If the difference between your party clearing versus hitting enrage is because your PLD/GNB/DRK did 50-100 less DPS due to having an omnitank set with Det melds, well, that's telling of a larger issue with your party as a whole.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I neither mentioned enrages nor implied it being a huge detriment. It's simply an annoyance as an omni-tank, especially when that 100 DPS means a lot when you're aiming for high parses.

Adding to the topic at hand, I'd also like for Inner Chaos to not replace Fell Cleave.

[Shurrikhan]

Adding to the topic at hand, I'd also like for Inner Chaos to not replace Fell Cleave.

Wouldn't that essentially gut the (admittedly constraint-based) mechanic, though?

It's kind of like giving Bard an extra charge on Bloodletter or an extra stack stackable (though not spendable) on Perfect Pitch, or giving Monk up to 10 chakra to spend at a time.

Sure, it's freeing, but is that necessarily what we want if it then removes some few-yet-significant gameplay decisions that make the job's play require a bit more immediate reaction and/or forethought?

[Lucy_Pyre]

Please don't put words in my mouth. I neither mentioned enrages nor implied it being a huge detriment. It's simply an annoyance as an omni-tank, especially when that 100 DPS means a lot when you're aiming for high parses.

Adding to the topic at hand, I'd also like for Inner Chaos to not replace Fell Cleave.

It was mentioned that it's a DPS loss, and I pointed out how it's a more or less irrelevant one. Also, no, that "100 DPS" does not mean anything when aiming for high parses. I've been playing a lot of Dark Knight in Hades lately for a change of pace to the mindless mount grind, and I'm still completely capable of pulling orange/pink on that job with only a few DH melds (pieces that are used by DRK and only DRK).

For any potential curiosity, my stat spread on DRK.

Strength - 4,155
Crit - 3,589
Det - 2,157
DH - 560
SkS - 1,571

You will notice that my DH is around half what it should be for a tank that doesn't share gear with WAR, and my average DH rate over a fight is usually around 2%, with only one or two singular direct crits in the majority of cases. Doesn't prevent me from doing well. So, if you're doing lower than you want due to melding Det and not DH, that's a problem with you, not the stats or your gear.

We're going to have to disagree with current war, but why do you think war should be 2nd on dps? Warrior has the lowest apm and simplest rotation out of all four of the tanks. I agree war needs some sort of buff but comparing it to the to the other tanks, it's in a fine spot being behind on dps atm. It's the best self-healing tank and it never has to double weave anything either. With how current war plays personally I say, it shouldn't be above the other tanks in terms of dps, it's the least skill intensive tank and has a good defensive kit to make up for it's lower dps. You can't really argue in favor of war doing more dps than the other tanks in the current state it is now, the other tanks all have to work harder for their dps.

WAR should be 2nd on DPS because it offers the least to the party of all tanks, barring GNB. Thus meaning that the only tank that should do more DPS than it is GNB as a result of this. PLD has a significant amount of party utility and should be beneath WAR in terms of DPS due to that.

[RavenFall_]

Uh, WAR still melds crit like every other job. It doesn't meld direct hit because the stat doesn't benefit its primary damage source, but if you aren't melding crit then you're doing something very wrong.



I don't think Warrior's kit needs changed at all, frankly. I am perfectly content and happy with how the job functions in its current state. The only thing I would want to see changed about WAR currently are some minor potency buffs to bring its DPS output into second place of the tanks, rather than dead last as it currently is. Because there is frankly no reason or excuse that Paladin should be doing more DPS than Warrior.



The amount of DPS non-WAR tanks lose by having Det melds over DH is extremely minor. We're talking within the sub-100 DPS range here, probably more accurately sub-50 DPS. It's a damage loss, yes, but it's such an insignificantly minor one that it makes very little difference. If the difference between your party clearing versus hitting enrage is because your PLD/GNB/DRK did 50-100 less DPS due to having an omnitank set with Det melds, well, that's telling of a larger issue with your party as a whole.

We're going to have to disagree with current war, but why do you think war should be 2nd on dps? Warrior has the lowest apm and simplest rotation out of all four of the tanks. I agree war needs some sort of buff but comparing it to the to the other tanks, it's in a fine spot being behind on dps atm. It's the best self-healing tank and it never has to double weave anything either. With how current war plays personally I say, it shouldn't be above the other tanks in terms of dps, it's the least skill intensive tank and has a good defensive kit to make up for it's lower dps. You can't really argue in favor of war doing more dps than the other tanks in the current state it is now, the other tanks all have to work harder for their dps.

[VenKitsune]

At this point, the only reason they have auto crits is to give the illusion of feeling powerful, nothing more. The reason? Simply put, right now WARs meld determination instead of crit/dhit like the other tanks because of this. If auto crits were removed, WARs would start melding crit/dhit again, and thus reduce the utility of battle litany etc as you mentioned already. Either way, it balances out, so its best to keep the auto crits and thus the illusion of power in the hands of casual players, instead of taking something away that would otherwise change very little.

[Duskane]

Sadly IR is pretty much the bandaid keeping the job together and it didn't really get much this expac

I don't think IR is the problem tho its just the jobs pretty bleh out side of IR
A good start would be separating fell cleave and Chaos cleave or chaos cleave replaces infuriate so job has one more ogcd

[Shurrikhan]

Why change Warrior for what should just be a universal change towards fairness?

Just have excess chance convert into increased effectiveness -- such that, say, a 120% Critical Hit chance (5% native + 10% from Battle Litany +5% from Chain Strat + 100% from Inner Release) increases your critical damage floor to +60% (since 120% of 50% = 60%).

Faintly decrease Warrior throughput as necessary thereafter, but then it'd no longer punish compositions with high indirect (e.g. raid-buff) damage and would thereby no longer require awkward optimizations nor discourage any particular compositions. Done.

[RavenFall_]

Why change Warrior for what should just be a universal change towards fairness?

Just have excess chance convert into increased effectiveness -- such that, say, a 120% Critical Hit chance (5% native + 10% from Battle Litany +5% from Chain Strat + 100% from Inner Release) increases your critical damage floor to +60% (since 120% of 50% = 60%).

Faintly decrease Warrior throughput as necessary thereafter, but then it'd no longer punish compositions with high indirect (e.g. raid-buff) damage and would thereby no longer require awkward optimizations nor discourage any particular compositions. Done.

That's fair but that means they would might have to rework how all indirect party buffs work just for inner release, which is very unlikely.