Valentines day event fail

[Vidu]

No, everyone is not treating it as such. When we start crossing over into pixel conspiracy theories about the voting or applying real world scenarios and situations to what an npc does in a storyline, then it is not being treated as a game and getting a little too serious.

Maybe its you, whos taking people who come up with "conspiracy theories" to serious? Personally, I'm reading those posts who accuse Lisette of nepotism more with a wink or take it as rhetoric, not a serious accusation.

And seeing how the advices the NPCs give could easly be applied in the real world, I dont think its such a bad idea to have a discussion about wether or not they're good or in what situations they could be good. We've had (very) few threads in the past with people actively asking for dating advice, we have the whole "Eternal Bond"-thread going on. Its not like this isnt a topic that only works in a fantasy world or a game setting.

[MsQi]

No, everyone is not treating it as such. When we start crossing over into pixel conspiracy theories about the voting or applying real world scenarios and situations to what an npc does in a storyline, then it is not being treated as a game and getting a little too serious.

You don't play RPGs, I mean as RPGs, do you? Considering things in game as if they could be real is part of that genre. I don't know what conspiracy theory you are talking about.

[Vidu]

It's. A. Game.

And? It can still be fun to discuss about the lore, the quests, the stories being told within it... to me this isnt so different from the study of literature and the courses I have to take as part of my studies on that subject. Except its more fun and I dont need to write a paper in the end or get a grade and instead just get to discuss, whats the harm?

[Katalyn]

I certainly get that people wanted more variety in the winners or for xyz to win. I just don’t get all the hate for Astrid’s plan. None of the plans were that detailed, and to me they all seemed about the same level of good/bad. I mean we can constantly whip out or tomestone like a smartphone. Why didn’t someone tell him to get on Eorzean Tinder and start swiping right?

Adults spend many hours at work and there are very natural and non-harmful ways for a romantic relationship to evolve in the workplace. Of course, there are also inappropriate scenarios as well. However, if our guy is the type to harass or make unwanted advances at work then he is going to behave the same in the other scenarios as well. A Creeper is going to creep after all, but Ywain doesn’t seem that type.

[Alleo]

I certainly get that people wanted more variety in the winners or for xyz to win. I just don’t get all the hate for Astrid’s plan. None of the plans were that detailed, and to me they all seemed about the same level of good/bad. I mean we can constantly whip out or tomestone like a smartphone. Why didn’t someone tell him to get on Eorzean Tinder and start swiping right?

Because her advice included clients. It also includes just flirting around which could mean that you are hitting on people that are already in a relationship (which is what happened). Its not like she said: Well if you fall in love with someone even if they are your co-worker show it to them. No she was more like: Just flirt with clients. The other examples have him at least try out something new which in turn can make his life better even if he does not find love. If he knows himself better and looks out for himself then he will make his life better and maybe makes him interesting for others. If he finds a hobby he may finally live a life outside of just work, meet more people (even if they are not love interests) and thus gain more experience.

Astrid was like: Do as you always do, just randomly flirt with clients too..even if that might destroy your business if it goes wrong..

[Katalyn]

Because her advice included clients. It also includes just flirting around which could mean that you are hitting on people that are already in a relationship (which is what happened). Its not like she said: Well if you fall in love with someone even if they are your co-worker show it to them. No she was more like: Just flirt with clients. The other examples have him at least try out something new which in turn can make his life better even if he does not find love. If he knows himself better and looks out for himself then he will make his life better and maybe makes him interesting for others. If he finds a hobby he may finally live a life outside of just work, meet more people (even if they are not love interests) and thus gain more experience.

Astrid was like: Do as you always do, just randomly flirt with clients too..even if that might destroy your business if it goes wrong..

I find it interesting you only respond to my first paragraph when the second deals with your objection. So I will put it out here again as I believe it deals with the main issue I have with those who are not fond of Astrid’ plan. There seems to be this assumption if he looks for love at work he is going to be creepy about it and cause problems. However, in the other scenarios he won’t be creepy. I mean the man is either a creep or not. You can’t have it both ways. :P

We could be dealing with different translations but the NA/English version she doesn’t advise him to flirt with clients but instead begin his search among them. Flirt and begin a search are two vey different things. He might be very curt and reserved at work. He could begin his search simply by opening up a little more, casual conversation, and seeing if there are any connections there. Again there is a right way and wrong way to do things. To assume he will do things the wrong way in the scenario you don’t like but the right way in the scenario you do like is a little disingenuous.

[Alleo]

I find it interesting you only respond to my first paragraph when the second deals with your objection. So I will put it out here again as I believe it deals with the main issue I have with those who are not fond of Astrid’ plan. There seems to be this assumption if he looks for love at work he is going to be creepy about it and cause problems. However, in the other scenarios he won’t be creepy. I mean the man is either a creep or not. You can’t have it both ways. :P

I did not include it because I dont care if it could lead to creepy situations or not. IMO one should simply not give such an advice to someone completely new to love. What would search among them include then? When they went to Geva he talks about love. Its not like Astrid gave him much help there either.

In the end her advice only managed to make it awkward between him and Geva and to introduce him to the worst NPC of the whole game..but since neither Astrid or Lisette have a problem with abusing men its a success..and such an ending for a event that is all about love.

I do agree with the sentiments of your last sentence. If you look at the plans at their highest level both Burt's and Rod's plans could be summarized the same way, improve yourself to help you find love, which is a very passive approach. Astrid, on the other hand, had a much more active plan. She was all like, "Go looking and put yourself out there boy." I firmly believe to find love you do have to put yourself out there.

Improving oneself is not really passive. You have to take the steps to start to learn about yourself. And if you know what you want you will know what you want in a relationship. I mean he does not even know what type of person he likes. How would he even find one? Randomly doing it until its a success? Bert is also active because he has to step out of his comfort zone and search for something else to do next to work. People having the same hobbies are often great ways to start a relationship. He also can train to talk and interact with more people too. Astrid plan was to just go to Geva (she did not even ask him if he liked her) and let him hit on her. Which could have ended very badly for their business relationship. That honestly does sound like he just should hit on someone and not at least on those he already has some feelings for..and 100% never talk about love when you barely even know them.

I’m legitimately surprised this thread is still active.

Posts like that also keep it active.

[Katalyn]

I must be bad at writing because I feel people keep missing my main point. So one last try.

I did not include it because I dont care if it could lead to creepy situations or not. IMO one should simply not give such an advice to someone completely new to love. What would search among them include then? When they went to Geva he talks about love. Its not like Astrid gave him much help there either.

In the end her advice only managed to make it awkward between him and Geva and to introduce him to the worst NPC of the whole game..but since neither Astrid or Lisette have a problem with abusing men its a success..and such an ending for a event that is all about love.

I agree the end results of Astrid's plan were bad. However, this thread was (is?) about the vote with a number of people stating Astrid's plan was the worst which compounded their frustration with her winning everywhere. My point is her plan, as briefly detailed in the vote quest, was not so fundamentally flawed as to warrant that criticism and that people, including myself, could have legitimately cast their vote for her based on the merit of her plan.

I was glad to see I was not the only one who thought searching for love at work didn't mean just hitting on anyone. As I said previously, a good way to search would simply have been to open up. Ywain came across as the reserved type so just have normal conversations with the folks he is around daily and get to know them while also letting them get to know him. This is generally how any type of relationship begins. Now since Ywain is inexperienced we were counting on Astrid to suitably guide him. Obviously, she failed, but again I don't think this was apparent from the voting portion.

Improving oneself is not really passive. You have to take the steps to start to learn about yourself. And if you know what you want you will know what you want in a relationship. I mean he does not even know what type of person he likes. How would he even find one? Randomly doing it until its a success? Bert is also active because he has to step out of his comfort zone and search for something else to do next to work.

I agree self-improvement is active. Active/passive was a poor choice of words on my part. I should have said direct/indirect. Astrid had a direct plan of action as compared to the other two. As far as how he knows what he likes or how he would find someone, I'd say going out there meeting people and interacting with people to see who he clicks with and who he doesn't. You might even call that searching.

People having the same hobbies are often great ways to start a relationship. He also can train to talk and interact with more people too. Astrid plan was to just go to Geva (she did not even ask him if he liked her) and let him hit on her. Which could have ended very badly for their business relationship. That honestly does sound like he just should hit on someone and not at least on those he already has some feelings for..and 100% never talk about love when you barely even know them.

I agree hobbies are a good way to start a hobby. I believe this is the case because sharing a common interest helps establish a relationship. Do you know where else people are likely to share a common interest? Work. Usually, people have some interest in the field in which they are involved.

Astrid did execute her plan poorly, but searching for love doesn't necessarily and shouldn't involve just hitting on the very first person. Again, I don't think it was obvious from the voting portion her search would be so narrow, and we couldn't have really known she'd handle it so poorly from just the brief description in the voting portion of the event. After all she did say clients, as in more that one, as in not just the first person you are going to see that day.

[Vidu]

I certainly get that people wanted more variety in the winners or for xyz to win. I just don’t get all the hate for Astrid’s plan. None of the plans were that detailed, and to me they all seemed about the same level of good/bad. I mean we can constantly whip out or tomestone like a smartphone. Why didn’t someone tell him to get on Eorzean Tinder and start swiping right?

Adults spend many hours at work and there are very natural and non-harmful ways for a romantic relationship to evolve in the workplace. Of course, there are also inappropriate scenarios as well. However, if our guy is the type to harass or make unwanted advances at work then he is going to behave the same in the other scenarios as well. A Creeper is going to creep after all, but Ywain doesn’t seem that type.

While non of the plans were that detailed, Astrids missed one very important detail to me: The distinction between "Hey, is there something you've met through your work that you could imagine spending more time with?" and "Okay, there must be women somewhere in your work envoriment, lets hit on some!"
Sadly, what Astrid did is the later: She didnt ask Ywain if he was intrested in Geva (or anyone else in the leatherworker guild) and she didnt make sure that Geva was open for a relationship (shes married with two kids, so... probably no).

The problem with Astrids suggestion that many people seem to have - according to what I've read at least is that "finding love in the workplace" is okay, but just randomly hitting on people that you work with is just bad, bad, bad. And to me her suggestion sounded a lot like "just hitting on random people" and it turned out to be excatly that.

There is nothign wrong with a "natural" relationship at work, but thats not what Astrid was getting at - and it has nothing to do with her plan not being laid out in detail, it would have been very easy to ask "Hey, can you think of anyone at work you like?" instead of just presenting him the first female they happen to run into. Astrid is actively encouraging him to make such unwanted advances, hes obviously not the type for that - being extremly shy and insecure. You're right, he isnt a creeper - but Astrid is trying very hard to turn him into one.

Someone else mentioned before that her plan is the only one that includes at least talking to women and "practising" that in a sense - but is the workplace really the right place for that...?

[Katalyn]

While non of the plans were that detailed, Astrids missed one very important detail to me: The distinction between "Hey, is there something you've met through your work that you could imagine spending more time with?" and "Okay, there must be women somewhere in your work envoriment, lets hit on some!"
Sadly, what Astrid did is the later: She didnt ask Ywain if he was intrested in Geva (or anyone else in the leatherworker guild) and she didnt make sure that Geva was open for a relationship (shes married with two kids, so... probably no).

The problem with Astrids suggestion that many people seem to have - according to what I've read at least is that "finding love in the workplace" is okay, but just randomly hitting on people that you work with is just bad, bad, bad. And to me her suggestion sounded a lot like "just hitting on random people" and it turned out to be excatly that.

There is nothign wrong with a "natural" relationship at work, but thats not what Astrid was getting at - and it has nothing to do with her plan not being laid out in detail, it would have been very easy to ask "Hey, can you think of anyone at work you like?" instead of just presenting him the first female they happen to run into. Astrid is actively encouraging him to make such unwanted advances, hes obviously not the type for that - being extremly shy and insecure. You're right, he isnt a creeper - but Astrid is trying very hard to turn him into one.

Someone else mentioned before that her plan is the only one that includes at least talking to women and "practising" that in a sense - but is the workplace really the right place for that...?

Oh, I like your post, thanks for the response.

I want to take a small step back. The way I understand the major complaint is Astrid one the vote everywhere for reasons other than her plan which was the worst of the three. While I do agree it's likely she won for reasons other than the merits of her plan, I personally don't think she had the worst plan but in my opinion the best. However, since this thread is about the vote I don't think it fair to consider the results of the plan as that was unknown at the time of the vote.

I could be dumb and/or naive, but I didn't take "begin your search" to mean randomly hit on people. See my second post on beginning the search in a non-creepy way.

I do agree with the sentiments of your last sentence. If you look at the plans at their highest level both Burt's and Rod's plans could be summarized the same way, improve yourself to help you find love, which is a very passive approach. Astrid, on the other hand, had a much more active plan. She was all like, "Go looking and put yourself out there boy." I firmly believe to find love you do have to put yourself out there.

The fact that she suggested it at the workplace doesn't bother me. Typically professional adults are in a field they have an interest or passion about. This gives you a potential common ground for the people around you, both coworkers and clients, which can be a good starting place for any type of relationship. Of course, it has to be done appropriately. Obviously, Astrid didn't execute her plan well at all, but we couldn't know that at the time of the vote, and I don't think her plan in and of itself was any worst than the other two. Just my (unpopular) opinion.