Okay everyone, focus.

[Rydin]

And what's so wrong with dancer? I mean... really... this is Final Fantasy we're talking about. It's not meant to always be taken seriously, and I find that to be part of FF's charm. Why would anyone care if dancer isn't "manly" enough for some people? The concept of dancer is fairly solid, and I applaud SE for implementing it in an MMO. It was really fun to play, and I don't see the problem with implementing it again.

Would it be the first job I'd ask for? No, probably not, since I'd prefer more iconic jobs like SMN and THF to make their return first, but I would very much welcome the opportunity to play Dancer again in the future.

I'm hoping they give SMN and BST a good treatment when/if they are implemented. I tend to like pet classes the most, so that'd me wonderful to have again. I also secretly hope for PUP, which is (surprise!) not a very manly job either. Oh, but how I loved their AF... ~_^

OK... all the people that say "It's not that bad" or "It's useful"
If they added Dancer... and also added any other class that did the exact same thing (Had abilities that buffed or healed the party using TP).... then people would opt for the alternative class in a heartbeat
If it was a geomancer or atherist or something like that, and it used the energy of the planet to cast haste or heal the party... people would choose that over Dancer almost every time...

[Welsper59]

OK... all the people that say "It's not that bad" or "It's useful"
If they added Dancer... and also added any other class that did the exact same thing (Had abilities that buffed or healed the party using TP).... then people would opt for the alternative class in a heartbeat
If it was a geomancer or atherist or something like that, and it used the energy of the planet to cast haste or heal the party... people would choose that over Dancer almost every time...

Honestly, if FFXI didn't already introduce the DNC to a FF MMO, I'd probably go with DNC over Geomancer (though a GEO would be awesome to have regardless). The concept of dances doing what they do is far more intriguing and unique compared to the concept of some mage utilizing the elements to do their bidding (almost like a BLM/WHM would to do their roles, or that every magic-based fantasy book/movie already has). That having been said, I'd probably now go with a Geomancer more than Dancer primarily because it hasn't been done yet in an FF MMO. No other significant reason, assuming they were to fulfill the EXACT duties and spells, just different animation.

The idea of a Bard, referring to your earlier comments, is actually enlightening. Believe it or not, as obvious as it may be, there are people out there who play instruments. The idea of something found in the real world, especially if you yourself can play or appreciate music/instruments, having magical powers in the game, can be attractive. This pertains not just to Bards playing music, but even to Dancers dancing... and anything else found in a fictional game.

Plus there's the comedic value to consider. Have FUN with a game, don't take it seriously. Think about the first time you saw the dance steps (especially from a lumbering tower of manmeat like a galka), you most likely got a chuckle out of it if you aren't one of those "serious business" type of people. Even NPCs in FFXI made fun of the Galka dancing in Jeuno. It's a concept that shouldn't be taken seriously... I mean it is a video game, despite what some may think. This just brings up the whole argument aesthetic items being introduced (like the Goobbue mount) ruining the game, claiming it breaks immersion or destroys value of the strength monsters have. Like they have to make it their lifes mission to make sure a video games fictional universe is as close to "real" as possible.

Games don't have to be serious. Games don't only have to be about "cool" sword-wielding, heavy armor wearing, muscular, sweaty men... nor does it have to only be about flashy magic spells that make things go boom. Games have to be about "Fun". An online game, specifically MMOs, have to cater to the extremely diverse definition of "fun". People need to understand that what you want, may not be what others want... and even moreso, it may not be what the developers have in mind of what's "fun". We're human beings in the real world, we have the capability to adapt our minds... hence an imagination. Learn to utilize the skill to adapt, and you might find what you enjoy can be even more enjoyable than you thought.

tl;dr : Go outside.

[Rydin]

People need to understand that what you want, may not be what others want... and even moreso, it may not be what the developers have in mind of what's "fun".

Yes... I agree.. the game doesn't have to be only what an individual wants... but that shouldn't stop us from voicing what we want... Just with the understanding that we wont always get our way....
In fact... I think it is paramount that a forum be full of opposing ideas for it to really be effective
If it is implemented... I'm not going to start 10 threads talking about how SE is stupid... or rage quit...
Adding dancer wouldn't absolutely break the game or destroy my experience... I'd just prefer not to see it

And for the record... I am a professional musician (Its the only thing paying my bills) and Bard does absolutely nothing for me... It doesn't piss me off that it's in game... but it also doesn't get me moist

If they add dancer, I'm not going to do like Xoo and Utsusemi and mention it in every thread ever made

[Welsper59]

Yes... I agree.. the game doesn't have to be only what an individual wants... but that shouldn't stop us from voicing what we want... Just with the understanding that we wont always get our way....
In fact... I think it is paramount that a forum be full of opposing ideas for it to really be effective
If it is implemented... I'm not going to start 10 threads talking about how SE is stupid... or rage quit...
Adding dancer wouldn't absolutely break the game or destroy my experience... I'd just prefer not to see it

And for the record... I am a professional musician (Its the only thing paying my bills) and Bard does absolutely nothing for me... It doesn't piss me off that it's in game... but it also doesn't get me moist

If they add dancer, I'm not going to do like Xoo and Utsusemi and mention it in every thread ever made

I totally agree that forums should have opposing arguments. These days, people need to have a place to share ideas and voice opinions. The only thing about it, is a grand number of people seem to not grasp the idea that their feedback isn't constructive enough to be taken as more than a statistical number (for developers). Constructive arguments against something should be weighed in on with timing and insight whenever possible or applicable. Simply saying something isn't "cool looking" is at best, a statistic tally for potential visual change.

I think I understand what you mean with you having experience as a musician, and am glad you do, but not caring for Bard. I took Iaido for a number of years in the past, yet Samurai (or classes/jobs like it) is always on the lower end of the list of attractive playstyles. I just don't care for the SAM gameplay. However, I did used to be in band for 6yrs of my K-12 schooling, and found the bard class attractive. Different form of nostalgia maybe? Or maybe we just don't care too much for things we have experience with IRL? But it obviously doesn't change the fact that despite RL experiences, we may still enjoy it in the fictional world. I just enjoyed the playstyle and arguable skill necessary to play the job well. Character positioning, different instrument types to produce different results (string having wider range), and so on.

[Rydin]

I totally agree that forums should have opposing arguments. These days, people need to have a place to share ideas and voice opinions. The only thing about it, is a grand number of people seem to not grasp the idea that their feedback isn't constructive enough to be taken as more than a statistical number (for developers). Constructive arguments against something should be weighed in on with timing and insight whenever possible or applicable. Simply saying something isn't "cool looking" is at best, a statistic tally for potential visual change.

I think I understand what you mean with you having experience as a musician, and am glad you do, but not caring for Bard. I took Iaido for a number of years in the past, yet Samurai (or classes/jobs like it) is always on the lower end of the list of attractive playstyles. I just don't care for the SAM gameplay. However, I did used to be in band for 6yrs of my K-12 schooling, and found the bard class attractive. Different form of nostalgia maybe? Or maybe we just don't care too much for things we have experience with IRL? But it obviously doesn't change the fact that despite RL experiences, we may still enjoy it in the fictional world. I just enjoyed the playstyle and arguable skill necessary to play the job well. Character positioning, different instrument types to produce different results (string having wider range), and so on.

I appreciate that
And Like I said... i wont rage over Dancer... It seems like a lot of people like it... I guess I just don't get it...
But I do want to make sure people aren't confusing the usefulness of the job with the job itself...
Like if they added a job called "Douchebag" but it was the biggest and best DD of all time.. people would be on the forum defending how awesome bags of douche really are
OK... maybe I have a penchant for exaggeration... but who doesn't like a little flare here and there

[Welsper59]

I appreciate that
And Like I said... i wont rage over Dancer... It seems like a lot of people like it... I guess I just don't get it...
But I do want to make sure people aren't confusing the usefulness of the job with the job itself...
Like if they added a job called "Douchebag" but it was the biggest and best DD of all time.. people would be on the forum defending how awesome bags of douche really are
OK... maybe I have a penchant for exaggeration... but who doesn't like a little flare here and there

Okay, I gotta give it to yah, this post made me LOL. I can see people indeed cheering for Douchebags, and I'd probably be one of them... if anything, just for the hilarity of it.

Most people are always going to be on the lookout for something fun to do. Often, this fun includes a unique aspect of it compared to what else is out there. DNC is definitely one of those things that the FF series has that others usually don't. If something like that attracts attention, if anything positive attention, in that the game has unique things to offer, then all the better. It doesn't mean that it's necessary to play the job that you find questionable, but as long as it's not gamebreaking (mechanics wise), it's something that should just be accepted. Others probably disagree with your displeasure, but the bottomline is, if someone enjoys it, and it doesn't hurt you (or others), don't hurt them.

That's not to say to just rollover and take whatever happens, by all means voice your opinion of dislike. It may end up being something the devs of this game (and others) keep in the back of their minds for the future. But again, if you want to be taken seriously, it has to be constructive. If anyone negative can't be constructive, the post is likely trolling / poorly thought out / joking. It helps when trying to remain sane online LOL.

[Rydin]

Okay, I gotta give it to yah, this post made me LOL. I can see people indeed cheering for Douchebags, and I'd probably be one of them... if anything, just for the hilarity of it.

Most people are always going to be on the lookout for something fun to do. Often, this fun includes a unique aspect of it compared to what else is out there. DNC is definitely one of those things that the FF series has that others usually don't. If something like that attracts attention, if anything positive attention, in that the game has unique things to offer, then all the better. It doesn't mean that it's necessary to play the job that you find questionable, but as long as it's not gamebreaking (mechanics wise), it's something that should just be accepted. Others probably disagree with your displeasure, but the bottomline is, if someone enjoys it, and it doesn't hurt you (or others), don't hurt them.

That's not to say to just rollover and take whatever happens, by all means voice your opinion of dislike. It may end up being something the devs of this game (and others) keep in the back of their minds for the future. But again, if you want to be taken seriously, it has to be constructive. If anyone negative can't be constructive, the post is likely trolling / poorly thought out / joking. It helps when trying to remain sane online LOL.

ok... can I at least petition for some more badass gear for DNC in this one?

[Miste]

I'd just prefer not to see it

I'm curious why you are so against seeing Dancers in a game. Are you that insecure in your sexuality? Does the male dancers in frills bother you so much? lol...

[Rydin]

I'm curious why you are so against seeing Dancers in a game. Are you that insecure in your sexuality? Does the male dancers in frills bother you so much? lol...

In a word.... yes

[Miste]

In a word.... yes

Well, you have really sexy dressed females in the game, gear that leaves nothing to the imagination. Its only fair to give the girls something to look at too. Not only men play this game. I'm a girl and I want to play Dancer. Other female players have nothing against seeing male dancers I'm sure. Guys get to see the female dancers, girls get to see the male dancers. Yay equal fanservice!