Can we get choices that really matter and have a effect?

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

To keep it focused on just one series, to serve as a general example. Because Adam was hurt by the SDC, he need to kill multiple civilians in Mistral via bombing. People that had no idea who he is, what happened to him. Just living their lives having their own worries. That's not justice or making things better by any stretch of the imagination. That's not even disproportionate retribution. That's just evil. Ozma died of a disease, not some horrible curse. Life happened. And the gods didn't punish her even after she lied to them. She lost someone important and didn't cope with it. Sounding a bit familiar?

you do know thats why she is immortal right but also I think alot of that was the example effect done by Adam but even if it wasn't sometimes the decent of madness does happan but its not really Adams fault he was turned into it.

As for the cope thing not all characterscan do that Salem for example was locked in a castle and the only one she really knew was Ozma so that was basicly the end of her world/life so can't really set blame on that. There isn't just the lost factor there is also everything before that the truth of it is if she died first Ozma wouldnt have done anything due the fact he had experiences through out the world outside of salem the reason why is the build up and attachment which that create even more reason that the character is justified. Which I think alot of people don't take count of due the fact its something most would overlook because its not just the one thing that causes it for example Niddhogg it wasn't just the one kill that made him fall it was the fact they pretended that it made them heros and gods killing his sibling, its also the fact that the years and years they told lies and anyone who questioned them was branded Heretics so honestly it adds up. Its like the person is a fish tank you can only put so many fish in the tank before it bust open.

You keep using DnD in your examples of 'works great'. Are you speaking of a specific online MMORPG, or the tabletop RPG? They are vastly different things.

the Mmo one I left within 1 hour since its not really DnD at all its like scraps off a table. so tabletop

Quite simply, the problem here is that your personal sense of morality is so at odds with the writers of this story (if not society at large) that you are never going to find enjoyment in how the plot is resolved. Even if they gave you "choices", I doubt they would give you the sort of outcomes you seem to be seeking.

I'm aware but even with no extra choices they honestly need to stop killing off characters that don't match their flawed morality and let them get some victorys and maybe redeem or make the character really understand them and let them do as they please

[Deusteele]

you do know thats why she is immortal right but also I think alot of that was the example effect done by Adam but even if it wasn't sometimes the decent of madness does happan but its not really Adams fault he was turned into it.

Which happened after, guess what, she lied and manipulated the kingdoms into revolt againist the gods. Again, she wasn't coping in a healthy manner.

It keeps coming around to your attempting to defend actions that would be horrifying in a non-fiction setting. Most of the characters you're attempting to defend actions kill people who had no involvement in the villains lives. They just keep lashing out and hurting others. The fact that you find this defensible is rather disturbing.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Which happened after, guess what, she lied and manipulated the kingdoms into revolt againist the gods. Again, she wasn't coping in a healthy manner.

It keeps coming around to your attempting to defend actions that would be horrifying in a non-fiction setting. Most of the characters you're attempting to defend actions kill people who had no involvement in the villains lives. They just keep lashing out and hurting others. The fact that you find this defensible is rather disturbing.

They're either a better troll than Titanmen or have a rather disturbing point of view and may need to seek counseling.

[Iscah]

They're either a better troll than Titanmen or have a rather disturbing point of view and may need to seek counseling.

Option 1 is coming out slightly higher on the "faith in humanity" scale to be honest.

Slightly.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

They're either a better troll than Titanmen or have a rather disturbing point of view and may need to seek counseling.

Im not the one that has a disturbing view point that is society that lets people walk away unjudged if anything I'm more of a hero type than the ppl who say such characters are evil or bad when they had to take that action.

also you assume this characters are villians they are not villians they just take diffrent methods to do what needs to be done. Someone has to play the "god" to save everything even if sometimes some eggs(lifes) have to be cracked in the process it doesn't matter as long as in the end great good happans those who are sacrficed were nothing more than eggs that had to be cracked for the greater good.

its like if you had to cure a illiness that was causing mass casualitys but in order to cure it you had to experiment which would lead to lets say 500 deaths those 500 deaths do no matter for in the long run you will be saving millions and billions of others.

What your all assuming is because X character murders that makes them a villian well even alot of heros like green arrow,batman murdered even superman did... but it isn't that action that matter it is the fact that what they did it for. And honestly what we are doing as WOl could be consinder murder in character view but whats funny is noone bothers thinking about it because its for the sake "of saving lifes" which is really no diffrent than any character i support.
Deathstroke did it for greed
Bane for w/e reason but was not really that great
Joker for fun
Ivy to save nature
Mr.freeze for his wife and so forth
Now on this list I agree Deathstroke-joker are evil villians however Ivy-mr freeze are not villians.


Also I'm not asking to play with villians I'm asking to play with who I believe is truely the good guys. big difference

but whatever I give up I should have known

Choice is always good because this enforce morality they believe in which is weak and soft is forced on others with forced path even though characters offer you a choice YOUR character refuses to take it

[TheMightyMollusk]

Im not the one that has a disturbing view point that is society that lets people walk away unjudged if anything I'm more of a hero type than the ppl who say such characters are evil or bad when they had to take that action.

also you assume this characters are villians they are not villians they just take diffrent methods to do what needs to be done. Someone has to play the "god" to save everything even if sometimes some eggs(lifes) have to be cracked in the process it doesn't matter as long as in the end great good happans those who are sacrficed were nothing more than eggs that had to be cracked for the greater good.

Your "heroic" point of view so far has included letting Ishgard burn for the sins of people who have been dead for a thousand years, even though the people of the present want to atone and find another way; letting Zenos run free even though we've seen that his leadership style is to deliberately make people suffer just so he'll have people to fight because he's bored; and letting the Ascians wipe out several planets worth of people because they're incapable of moving on from their past. And apparently this is all for "the greater good".

At this point, I'm convinced that you're either unwilling or unable to actually have this discussion, so I'm bowing out. But please, before you bring up "the greater good" again, have a look through a few history books and see how many real tyrants used that to justify their actions.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

Your "heroic" point of view so far has included letting Ishgard burn for the sins of people who have been dead for a thousand years, even though the people of the present want to atone and find another way; letting Zenos run free even though we've seen that his leadership style is to deliberately make people suffer just so he'll have people to fight because he's bored; and letting the Ascians wipe out several planets worth of people because they're incapable of moving on from their past. And apparently this is all for "the greater good".

At this point, I'm convinced that you're either unwilling or unable to actually have this discussion, so I'm bowing out. But please, before you bring up "the greater good" again, have a look through a few history books and see how many real tyrants used that to justify their actions.

Ishgard wasn't innocent at the time how are you believeing that when the pope kept lieing to the people while covering up what happan and mean while playing the dragons as great evil hunting them for sport they were not innocent not a single life in ishgard was innocent they sit there idealy believing what the "church said" they were just as guility has the ones that did it.

as for zenos he just wanted a play mate to fight with he wasnt evil or good he was chaotic neutral

and like has been said its not murder if the people don't really exist as Emet set said he wouldn't ever "murder" he said in his own words Its not murder if the characters are not complete thus they don't truely exist. beside his kind lives forever a mortals life last 1-90 years maybe longer depending on the race but still dies evently so honestly those lifes have no value to a character that lives forever who wants to restore things.
its like in real life A Ant,cow has no value what so ever the only value of a cow is making meat from it

as for that advice heres my advice to you watch the movie called "The Final"

[Alleo]

as for zenos he just wanted a play mate to fight with he wasnt evil or good he was chaotic neutral

Zenos is seen as a monster even by his own father, a man that is himself not an angel...Zenos goes out of his way to just randomly kill people that have done mistakes or that annoy him...

Yoshida himself has stated that they created Zenos as character that should be hated and he is put into the absolute evil category by him.

But like others have said there is not need to talk about this further. If someone says minor changes but then talks about joining the Ascians...