Can we get choices that really matter and have a effect?

[Alleo]

Highlighting that the entire race of the Amaurotine wouldn't even be able to stand up to half an Alliance Raid only exposes their patheticness.





From the sound of things, they only had 2 cities so they didn't last long. None of their technology seemed more advanced than anyone else's. All we see are lights and an Aetheryte. Big deal. And in terms of Unity, their civil war resulted in their virtual extinction. The fact that the human races don't follow the Amaurotine methodology and philosophy is to their benefit. The tale of the Ascian is a tale of self-destruction.

They dont feel very strong but honestly this could just be the way SE shows them. I mean we have one dungeon where some of their creations or some captured creatures ran free and instead of seeing them trying to capture them, they run around like headless chickens. Of course if they had everything in control we would have no dungeon but having them all be so fearful or running away really does not make them feel quite powerful.

Where is the hint that they only had two cities? They do only talk about two but it could just be because that is the last one that was attacked next to theirs. IMO it sounded more that Amaurot is just one of the more important ones but we dont know the amount of cities around the whole world. (I mean if ancient ones are immortal then I doubt that they would only have two cities. The amount of people over time would imo need more)

I agree that we should not hold them on some pedestal. They clearly are not as perfect as Emet wanted them to be and seeing how they just stood there and discussed the destruction of other cities instead of really helping them also does not paint that great of a picture either. (And then we have that side quests where we are forced to create our own robes because standing out from the crowd even as a child is bad..)

[Edax]

They dont feel very strong but honestly this could just be the way SE shows them. I mean we have one dungeon where some of their creations or some captured creatures ran free and instead of seeing them trying to capture them, they run around like headless chickens. Of course if they had everything in control we would have no dungeon but having them all be so fearful or running away really does not make them feel quite powerful.

Where is the hint that they only had two cities? They do only talk about two but it could just be because that is the last one that was attacked next to theirs. IMO it sounded more that Amaurot is just one of the more important ones but we dont know the amount of cities around the whole world. (I mean if ancient ones are immortal then I doubt that they would only have two cities. The amount of people over time would imo need more)

I agree that we should not hold them on some pedestal. They clearly are not as perfect as Emet wanted them to be and seeing how they just stood there and discussed the destruction of other cities instead of really helping them also does not paint that great of a picture either. (And then we have that side quests where we are forced to create our own robes because standing out from the crowd even as a child is bad..)

We know there aren’t many ruins of the Ancients and there’s no “Gondor calls for aid” moment when Amaurot is where their government resides. If they had many cities, logically they would summon aid from everywhere to protect the capital. I got the strong impression there weren’t that many Ancients to begin with.

[Edax]

The romans you mention fell to a hoard of uncultured barbarians and internal corruption. The technological advancement of the whole of Europe was held back by at least a hundred years due to the inquisition.
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The Ottomans were far more advanced then you give them credit for. The Ottomans were superior when they defeated the last bastion of the Roman Empire. The Spartans were already long gone for 1650 years.

Meanwhile the Ancients were defeated by a sound.

[Dakuryon]

The only choice I want is the option to marry Magnai ...

[PyurBlue]

I would argue the opposite. Its worthwhile to discuss because its subjective. You can understand and respect the other side of the argument, without dismissing them as evil, and then still agree to disagree (and proceed to go stab them in the face if applicable). Not much to discuss if you view your values as objective truths.

Objective truths do leave room for discussion. They only set boundaries if you're speaking in terms of morality. For example, if stealing is wrong then we know that it's off limits for someone to take something that belongs to you. However if you realize that other person wants something that you possess you can still try to compromise with them. You could sell them the item, or share it with them, etc.

From the sound of things, they only had 2 cities so they didn't last long. None of their technology seemed more advanced than anyone else's. All we see are lights and an Aetheryte. Big deal. And in terms of Unity, their civil war resulted in their virtual extinction. The fact that the human races don't follow the Amaurotine methodology and philosophy is to their benefit. The tale of the Ascian is a tale of self-destruction.

The Amaurorites aren't depicted as particularly unified, they're the only race that has managed to shatter and destroy entire worlds. Emit saying that his race has the moral high ground is nothing but bias. Technologically I'd say they're more advanced though. A single one of them was able to construct a city more complex than one we've seen anywhere else. An entire civilization would have been capable of pulling off feats worthy of a deity (and they basically did, destroying their world in the process).

If you want to separate magic and technology then I guess you could say they were less advanced, but that doesn't make any sense. Magic is technology in FF14. The whole Garlean point of view that Eorzeans are savages has always felt very strange given that magic seems to be just as potent as machinery.

[Lersayil]

The Ottomans were far more advanced then you give them credit for. The Ottomans were superior when they defeated the last bastion of the Roman Empire. The Spartans were already long gone for 1650 years.

Meanwhile the Ancients were defeated by a sound.

Personally, I was thinking more of the migrating Germanic people, the Huns and the fall of the Western Roman Empire circa 476 AD.

And come now, now you are just being fallacious. That was anything but a simple sound, given that it nearly ended the whole world.

Objective truths do leave room for discussion. They only set boundaries if you're speaking in terms of morality. For example, if stealing is wrong then we know that it's off limits for someone to take something that belongs to you. However if you realize that other person wants something that you possess you can still try to compromise with them. You could sell them the item, or share it with them, etc.

Well, yes, that is exactly the scenario I meant.

The Amaurorites aren't depicted as particularly unified, they're the only race that has managed to shatter and destroy entire worlds. Emit saying that his race has the moral high ground is nothing but bias.

He did say this was the first major disagreement within their race though. He also said that there were plenty of arguments between individual groups on a number of topics within the society, but they were talked out, and decided via constructive discussion. We did see examples of this in Amaurot too. Possibly not the whole truth, since both him and the city count as unreliable narrators (possibly the same?), but we don't have any evidence to the contrary yet.

[Pintsized]

Both WoW and LoTRO tried providing smallish branching quests which resulted in real consequences (such as gear tied to whichever option you took) and it didn't end well .. endless whining from the min/maxers about losing out to the BiS item (even though both were, just not the same slot). Turbine responded by saying they'd never do it again, Blizzard have never done it either, except for a lame case in BFA which simply provided a short and largely forgettable end-of-story cutscene.

TLDR: people will moan because they 'lost out' by their choice, I expect SE will simply avoid the drama.

[MariaArvana]

Meanwhile the Ancients were defeated by a sound.

A sound that warped the very laws of reality, causing their creation magic to go out of control and create the terminus beasts.

Like, imagine if one day a sound emanated from our planet and then suddenly the laws of thermodynamics fell apart, gravitational forces all just reversed, cement became as soft as water, etc. You think any civilization is going to easily beat or recover from an event that basically attacked the very foundation of their existence? The Ascians basically used creation magic for the foundation of their existence, it's pretty easy to see why their very foundation being destroyed beneath them and turned against them would cause an apocalypse. Saying it was just 'a sound' is a massively extreme underestimate.

Also, I'd have to go back and look through text, but I'm 100% sure the game describes the Amaroutians as a 'star-spanning civilization'. They more than likely had many, many cities across the globe. Just when terminus beasts start showing up everywhere, it's hard to do a "gondor calls for aid" when everywhere is being attacked by the same threat. Like if an apocalypse were to ever strike our planet, every nation would probably be worried about itself rather than trying to call for aid.

[Alleo]

We know there aren’t many ruins of the Ancients and there’s no “Gondor calls for aid” moment when Amaurot is where their government resides. If they had many cities, logically they would summon aid from everywhere to protect the capital. I got the strong impression there weren’t that many Ancients to begin with.

I mean there is barely anything left of the first and the source had so many calamities that most of the ruins are probably gone. Or under water. Amaurot was the last city that was still standing at the end. There was no "help from somehwere else" because nothing else was left. Heck they should have helped another city that had the calamity at that time but they choose not to do it.

And that city itself is huge. That must be millions of people in there.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

Both WoW and LoTRO tried providing smallish branching quests which resulted in real consequences (such as gear tied to whichever option you took) and it didn't end well .. endless whining from the min/maxers about losing out to the BiS item (even though both were, just not the same slot). Turbine responded by saying they'd never do it again, Blizzard have never done it either, except for a lame case in BFA which simply provided a short and largely forgettable end-of-story cutscene.

TLDR: people will moan because they 'lost out' by their choice, I expect SE will simply avoid the drama.

They aren't avoiding drama there are so many thing that prove they don't care about how people are drama wise like the Gender lock or all the people talking about markers now. They aren't avoiding drama they aren't even given it a thought which honestly is a good thing.

People being little cry baby ..... isn't a reason not to do it if you don't like it then don't do it but when something is optional noone has any right to cry over it.


Also choices aren't just story related they could effect characters move sets similar to wows specs or ffxi's merit system.

before you say well everyone will cookie cut each other because there will always be that one better option.

First off that is untrue anyone who played diablo 2 knows this the cookie cutter barbarins were what were called bear/ww bars that casted Bo's on themself before killing.

Want to know something I wiped them out as a poison frogger bar that went around one hitting everyone of those builds in hardcore diablo 2.

What I'm trying to say is while yes if every black mage picked Fire for example there damage would be higher but that doesn't make it better even if popular choice was fire a black mage focusing on lighting or frost could always beat them if they do it right.

There is no such thing as "illusional choice" thats just when the maker impletements the choice incorrect to the point it shows no real difference.

THe point of choices is for it TO SHOW A REAL DIFFERENCE to give your character his or her own unique idenedity anyone can pick the same hair same face same glamor all of that can be done by everyone which takes its "unique quality" to 0