Quote Originally Posted by Lastelli View Post
That doesn't really matter, though. If having a ranged dps was a strictly inferior choice, by now we'd at the very least see a lot of no-ranged parties on fflogs. If virtually all parties do include a ranged, it's because people see value in them.

I'd go even further and say that if substituting the ranged with another caster or another melee was indifferent, then we'd see some parties with no ranged dps. But again, that's not the case.

Also, speedrunners did try different party comps before 5.2. Trust me, I checked fflogs rankings frequently back then. And even then, before the ranged were buffed, most comps included a DNC.
Someone did try triple melee comps in eden 2 and 3 and got good results...but at the end comps including a DNC were still on top by a few seconds (before the buff). The role buff is probably more powerful then people realize.

I do agree, however, that DNC is clearly superior to the other 2 ranged...to the point where it's stupidly close to melee dps in TEA, but that has more to do with how beneficial downtime is to DNC, given how perfectly everything lines up with quad step and devilment. They can't do anything to DNC to fix this...but what they can do is give the other 2 ranged some tools to capitalize on downtime. I thought they learned their lesson with ultimate coil and uwu (SMN was and still is op for a similar reason)...but I was probably wrong.



I don't care that ranged dps lost some utility. I'm analyzing the current situation, and the current data tells us that ranged dps are not excluded from any kind of content. Being that the case, it's very likely that having one is optimal. If having one is optimal, there's no point arguing about their dps. Were they buffed by X, the devs would just increase the dps requirement for content by X = no difference at all.

Also, their AoE damage is very good, making them a perfectly viable solution for dungeons...assuming anyone cares about completing their dungeon 2 minutes earlier and dropping a job for it. If that was the case, everyone would be running BLM and WHM.

To conclude, my opinion is that double ranged comp should be actively discouraged. The current balance assures that you don't want more than one ranged in your group. That's perfect to me. And while Troubadour/Samba/Tactician do not stack, they're still the strongest defensive cd available to a dps and you can use them twice as much with a double ranged comp.
I don't know about the others, I can only explain better what I had in mind, and it's not this question : do range have a spot, will they keep it, will they get more ?

I'm just stating they're behind DPS wise. And the arguments for why don't work on me. If they're buffed, suddenly everyone will take range and only range ? Having a MCH or DNC do the same damage as my SMN (well smn is op so bad exemple, maybe something more like rdm after the buff it will get) won't make me drop it suddenly for MCH, I don't see why it would for so many people ?

If movement was such an issue for all non range classes, you would see no casters. Yet here they are. If uptime was such an issue for all non range classes, you would see no melees. yet here they are, and frequently even 2 by party.
Because uptime is a non issue already at my average level, and even more for you when you play at your level (took the liberty of looking at your profile and you're very good), everyone on your team manages uptime so well it virtually doesn't matter.

So low numbers is an issue that gets more importance unfortunately. Absolutely not saying it gets you excluded. Just saying it's "feels bad man". So if you don't feel bad, well that's really good for you and I can see why you don't get us. Just understand other might. I don't play range so don't really care honestly, just laying out all the points to discuss (cause I've had it with whiny melees who think their job is the hardest in the world and thought at first you were one)