So...is the Ranged Role gone? Are we in a Reverse HW?

[Lastelli]

As per my prior comment few groups care are doing serious speedruns of Savage (the top Levi kill is 5.0 ffs) so looking at those charts doesn't necessarily tell you anything.

That doesn't really matter, though. If having a ranged dps was a strictly inferior choice, by now we'd at the very least see a lot of no-ranged parties on fflogs. If virtually all parties do include a ranged, it's because people see value in them.

I'd go even further and say that if substituting the ranged with another caster or another melee was indifferent, then we'd see some parties with no ranged dps. But again, that's not the case.

Also, speedrunners did try different party comps before 5.2. Trust me, I checked fflogs rankings frequently back then. And even then, before the ranged were buffed, most comps included a DNC.
Someone did try triple melee comps in eden 2 and 3 and got good results...but at the end comps including a DNC were still on top by a few seconds (before the buff). The role buff is probably more powerful then people realize.

I do agree, however, that DNC is clearly superior to the other 2 ranged...to the point where it's stupidly close to melee dps in TEA, but that has more to do with how beneficial downtime is to DNC, given how perfectly everything lines up with quad step and devilment. They can't do anything to DNC to fix this...but what they can do is give the other 2 ranged some tools to capitalize on downtime. I thought they learned their lesson with ultimate coil and uwu (SMN was and still is op for a similar reason)...but I was probably wrong.

A bit hasty in your reading, friend:



Ranged lacks the utility they used to have.

Also, I'll point some flaws in your reasoning:
1) SE don't tune around the endgame, it was proved again and again and is the reason why ranged dps are lower.
2) If any change would be neutral, no one would mind if Casters are put behind and melee/ranged would deal more dps, right? Oh, that already happened...
3) Your point of view is limited to endgame and I assume Savage and Ultimate. There's dungeons and EX, despite how easy it is, it's much better if you can speed it up. EX is the same, it's often tried by casuals who don't mitigate, the more mitigation/utility around survival your job has, the better. Felt that when I would play tank in Hades EX. On top of that, there's also Relic based content that will come with 5.25
4) During 5.0 my comp was MNK/RDM/MCH/DNC, we had all the 1% from each role but due to our comp we had quite the handicap. But going Melee/2 Casters/1 Ranged brings no handicap despite the "mobility" they should be lacking. If a comp goes 2 ranged, they should be allowed to play 2 ranged without feeling a huge gap in DPS. The fact that Troubadour/Samba/Tactician don't stack also brings a new handicap.

As for the "sad" part, remember that the ranged spot only exist for the 1% stats. That's the sad part.

Don't think in "DPS" only, ranged jobs were just not stripped of their DPS, they also lost valuable utility. Overall, the ranged job lost so much that they bring little for the group and that's why there are so many complaint around the ranged role.

I don't care that ranged dps lost some utility. I'm analyzing the current situation, and the current data tells us that ranged dps are not excluded from any kind of content. Being that the case, it's very likely that having one is optimal. If having one is optimal, there's no point arguing about their dps. Were they buffed by X, the devs would just increase the dps requirement for content by X = no difference at all.

Also, their AoE damage is very good, making them a perfectly viable solution for dungeons...assuming anyone cares about completing their dungeon 2 minutes earlier and dropping a job for it. If that was the case, everyone would be running BLM and WHM.

To conclude, my opinion is that double ranged comp should be actively discouraged. The current balance assures that you don't want more than one ranged in your group. That's perfect to me. And while Troubadour/Samba/Tactician do not stack, they're still the strongest defensive cd available to a dps and you can use them twice as much with a double ranged comp.