Dungeons, WAR vs DRK

[Falar]

Personally I consider tanks like this:

Damage: GNB>PLD>DRK>WAR
Defence: DRK>PLD>WAR>GNB
Sustain: PLD>WAR>GNB>DRK
Utility: PLD>Everyone else
(fun)Gameplay: GNB>PLD>WAR>DRK

So power wise overall, PLD stands as the Tank King overall of this expansion(really nice moment for PLD mains), followed by DRK due to how powerful is defensive wise right now despite its bland gameplay GNB is next due to the damage it deals, with WAR being dead last(due to WAR kit reducing group buffs effectiveness).

Just like they were last expansion. I guess all their tears in HW paid off.

[Duskane]

Personally I consider tanks like this:

Damage: GNB>PLD>DRK>WAR
Defence: DRK>PLD>WAR>GNB
Sustain: PLD>WAR>GNB>DRK
Utility: PLD>Everyone else
(fun)Gameplay: GNB>PLD>WAR>DRK

Probably shouldn't consider tanks like that yes there max damage output is like that but its so similar to where you dont pick a tank because of it's damage unless you are doing speed kills which op isn't doing he just wants a safe tank for dungeons

Also putting paladin Above WAR for sustainability and defense is pretty wrong
Yeah Clemency is good and can save runs on occasion but WAR will still beat it out easily

Fun part is subjective so w/e but i can see where OP is coming from as PLD can still kind of struggle in dungeons due to really only having Sentinel and Rampart as main Cd while other tanks have 3/4 to back on

[Bhearil]

Probably shouldn't consider tanks like that yes there max damage output is like that but its so similar to where you dont pick a tank because of it's damage unless you are doing speed kills which op isn't doing he just wants a safe tank for dungeons

Also putting paladin Above WAR for sustainability and defense is pretty wrong
Yeah Clemency is good and can save runs on occasion but WAR will still beat it out easily

Fun part is subjective so w/e but i can see where OP is coming from as PLD can still kind of struggle in dungeons due to really only having Sentinel and Rampart as main Cd while other tanks have 3/4 to back on

Dont forget that PLD has passive mitigation by being able to block which compensates having 1 defensive cd less. WAR has good sustain but it has its limits and relies on his/her burst windows to be really effective otherwise is quite "meh", and even then it doesnt compare with a PLD willing to use a few Clemencys by any strech.

About tank damage, before was more important, but since the tank damage nerf I agree that unless you are cutting the damage checks REAL close it doesnt matter the tank you use (dps jobs should improve instead of swapping tank...), and yeah fun is subjective , just considering how "simple" is the gameplay and even if no tank requires too much skill both WAR and DRK have super simple rotations (some people like that, to each its own i guess)

[Falar]

Dont forget that PLD has passive mitigation by being able to block which compensates having 1 defensive cd less. WAR has good sustain but it has its limits and relies on his/her burst windows to be really effective otherwise is quite "meh", and even then it doesnt compare with a PLD willing to use a few Clemencys by any strech.

About tank damage, before was more important, but since the tank damage nerf I agree that unless you are cutting the damage checks REAL close it doesnt matter the tank you use (dps jobs should improve instead of swapping tank...), and yeah fun is subjective , just considering how "simple" is the gameplay and even if no tank requires too much skill both WAR and DRK have super simple rotations (some people like that, to each its own i guess)

I only recently came back, wasn't around for this expansions launch. Did they say anything about specifically lowering tank damage? If I had to guess we went from being able to do about 70 percent as much damage as a DPS to 55 to 60. Seems healers can do more, it sucks. At first I saw they ungimped accessories and got happy, then I started playing.

[ArianeEwah]

I only recently came back, wasn't around for this expansions launch. Did they say anything about specifically lowering tank damage? If I had to guess we went from being able to do about 70 percent as much damage as a DPS to 55 to 60. Seems healers can do more, it sucks. At first I saw they ungimped accessories and got happy, then I started playing.

I think there was an interview before ShB YoshiP said that tank damage was too high. While in old content tank damage mostly remains unchanged - to keep the old balance - their contribution did indeed sink. It's not 55 to 60, it's still a little over 60% of a DPS - depending what job you're comparing it to - about 63-66%.

Still, it feels like a huge drop because WAR was just that OP in SB, and SqEx removed stance dance, thus a variable that could cause tank damage to "ping-pong". WHM was just way too weak, also. This job deserved a buff - whether it was too much or not, I am not to judge.

We are also able to see the contribution from aDPS to rDPS which feels even heavier despite the fact that tank raid contribution wasn't actually that high to begin with.

Nevertheless, tl;dr: yes, tank damage dropped by roughly 5-10% going into this expac. And they buffed healer damage by (probably) the lost amount.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Sustain: PLD>WAR>GNB>DRK

Optimal PLD play has zero sustain, so it's not really an advantage that it can leverage over the other tanks, especially not WAR. Clemency fits better under "utility," if it fits anywhere.

[Bhearil]

Optimal PLD play has zero sustain, so it's not really an advantage that it can leverage over the other tanks, especially not WAR. Clemency fits better under "utility," if it fits anywhere.

On optimal gameplay no tank healing is useful outside of damage mitigation (on which both DRK and PLD shine), unless huge crits happens since it wont save a healer cd or ogcd. Sustain skills shine when something is going awry and you gotta keep yourself alive until the enemy dies

[Argyle_Darkheart]

On optimal gameplay no tank healing is useful outside of damage mitigation (on which both DRK and PLD shine), unless huge crits happens since it wont save a healer cd or ogcd. Sustain skills shine when something is going awry and you gotta keep yourself alive until the enemy dies

Do you honestly think this? Because it doesn't make any sense. Why would self-sustain not save healer resources? Are you aware that Equilibrium is roughly equivalent to a Cure II?

[FallenWings]

In a scenario where WAR would have Inner Release for every pack, DRK would have Living Shadow for every pack and that would turn the tide back in DRKs favour for damage output. Killing all the mobs faster is 100% of the damage mitigated. WAR caps out because they auto crit and that auto crit damage is balanced against the other tank's no crits.

WAR can clutch in a scenario where the healer died, but a DRK can prevent said scenario with a well placed TBN. At the end of the day both and all tanks service just fine and picking hairs over which tank is better is pointless for such mindless content, just bring the one you are more proficient at/prefer playing and you will have better results.

[Nedkel]

Clemency falls under "stop using it why are you disrespecting your healer" kind of abilities.
You could use it, but you dont look good when doing so. xD