Square Enix should adopt a curated mod gallery/collection ala Skyrim / Fallout 4

[Penthea]

Let's look at the bug list that is entirely objective:

<insert gigantic wall of text>

I don't know how anyone can say Skyrim being bad without mods is subjective. I got the HD version for the ps4 and it has actually shown me other bugs I never saw before in the ps3 version. At least the game doesn't randomly crash in loading screens anymore, so that's something. My buddies who play the pc version also experienced a lot of issues, and there weren't mods to fix everything. And sometimes a mod would fix one thing but break something else.

I adore the game but it's a very imperfect beast. Thank God for quicksave.

[SturmChurro]

I don't know how anyone can say Skyrim being bad without mods is subjective. I got the HD version for the ps4 and it has actually shown me other bugs I never saw before in the ps3 version. At least the game doesn't randomly crash in loading screens anymore, so that's something. My buddies who play the pc version also experienced a lot of issues, and there weren't mods to fix everything. And sometimes a mod would fix one thing but break something else.

I adore the game but it's a very imperfect beast. Thank God for quicksave.

Again, keep in mind the gigantic amount of players who have enjoyed Bethesda games despite ALL THE BUGS, vanilla. Specifically on console. A friend of mine is a good example, he always tells me how he LOVED Skyrim, but hates Bethesda all their games are "buggy messes now", he doesn't know "what happened since Fallout 4 and Fallout 76!". So I asked him what he played Skyrim on, CONSOLE NO MODS. So I asked him why didn't the broken game bother you then? It's group think since Fallout 76, especially. The games stand on their own without mods despite being badly written, retcon filled, buggy messes.

Also, trust me despite what everyone says about Fallout 76, it's still a fairly active game. Despire the bugs, despite the hacks, despite everything, It still has a large fanbase of devoted players who buy their microtransactions and their Fallout 1st. In fact it's probably one of the few live service games that are still actively played, aside from Destiny 2. Does anybody remember that one game The Division 2? or Anthem? Yeah, me neither.


It is entirely subjective.

[Penthea]

Again, keep in mind the gigantic amount of players who have enjoyed Bethesda games despite ALL THE BUGS, vanilla. Specifically on console. A friend of mine is a good example, he always tells me how he LOVED Skyrim, but hates Bethesda all their games are "buggy messes now", he doesn't know "what happened since Fallout 4 and Fallout 76!". So I asked him what he played Skyrim on, CONSOLE NO MODS. So I asked him why didn't the broken game bother you then? It's group think since Fallout 76, especially. The games stand on their own without mods despite being badly written, retcon filled, buggy messes.


Also, trust me despite what everyone says about Fallout 76, it's still a fairly active game. Despire the bugs, despite the hacks, despite everything, It still has a large fanbase of devoted players who buy their microtransactions and their Fallout 1st.

It is entirely subjective.

I don't think it's subjective if the bugs cause frustration or don't go unnoticed.

I played Skyrim to death but there are many times when I cursed the game for just randomly flipping out. It was extremely annoying at times, and sometimes I had to take breaks because I got so tired of it. I always went back to the game because I love the story and the mechanics, but I took more breaks from it than I normally would with a game that has little to no issues.

Just because you continue playing a buggy game does not mean the issues are subjective. It just means that the game has other elements that keep bringing you back. A game having good things that get you hooked doesn't automatically render problems subjective.

[SturmChurro]

I don't think it's subjective if the bugs cause frustration or don't go unnoticed.

I played Skyrim to death but there are many times when I cursed the game for just randomly flipping out. It was extremely annoying at times, and sometimes I had to take breaks because I got so tired of it. I always went back to the game because I love the story and the mechanics, but I took more breaks from it than I normally would with a game that has little to no issues.

Just because you continue playing a buggy game does not mean the issues are subjective. It just means that the game has other elements that keep bringing you back. A game having good things that get you hooked doesn't automatically render problems subjective.

So, you are giving me an example of your very own subjective experience?

No, the issues aren't subjective. What is subjective is what was originally posted:

skyrim being bad without mods is entirely subjective. you can stomp your feet and cry about it but that won't make it true.

A large amount of people find bethesda games, even Fallout 76 good, despite all the issues therein. There are people who continue to play older bethesda titles like Morrowind, oblivion, fallout 3 without a single mod and they find those games good despite the bad. Are you going to tell me those games aren't just as filled with bugs? The games are good, despite the bad, otherwise none of them would have ever become so popular. It was not mods, I can tell you that for sure.

[Edax]

Again, keep in mind the gigantic amount of players who have enjoyed Bethesda games despite ALL THE BUGS, vanilla.

You can enjoy bad things. The quality of the product however, can be objectively measured. There's no getting around Skyrim's mountain of bugs. That list I posted didn't even include the giant amount of exploits in the game that Bethesda just left in the game despite rereleasing the game 7 times.

[SturmChurro]

You can enjoy bad things. The quality of the product however, can be objectively measured. There's no getting around Skyrim's mountain of bugs. That list I posted didn't even include the giant amount of exploits in the game that Bethesda just left in the game despite rereleasing the game 7 times.

Every game has bugs, and my arguments might seem jumbled, because I am doing multiple things at once. In short Skyrim is objectively good despite the bad, mods that fix these bug just make that good experience better. They stand well enough on their own without mods, to continue to rerelease those "7" times.

Sorry, I'd write a longer essay, but I am literally tabbing in and out of FFXIV, and going AFK. Doubt I will go back and solidify my argument.

[Edax]

Every game has bugs, and my arguments might seem jumbled, because I am doing multiple things at once. In short Skyrim is objectively good despite the bad, mods that fix these bug just make that good experience better. They stand well enough on their own without mods, to continue to rerelease those "7" times.

Sorry, I'd write a longer essay, but I am literally tabbing in and out of FFXIV, and going AFK. Doubt I will go back and solidify my argument.

Every games has bugs, few AAA games however managed to rival Bethesda bugs. As for Skyrim, the story is really weak, the characters are really weak, the only thing that stood out to me was the gameplay. And it's with the gameplay that the glitches drag it down. Even the DLC was so buggy that I couldn't even finish a single one, apart from the one where I built a really glitchy house. Perhaps calling Skyrim "bad" is too far but the fact remains the game was buried in problems. I can't remember the story, I only remember characters by their appearance and I vaguely remember really bad voice acting, what I remember most about Skyrim was looting caves. For me, retrospectively, I didn't get a lot out of Skyrim even though I remember being amazed by it on release.

[SturmChurro]

Every games has bugs, few AAA games however managed to rival Bethesda bugs. As for Skyrim, the story is really weak, the characters are really weak, the only thing that stood out to me was the gameplay. And it's with the gameplay that the glitches drag it down. Even the DLC was so buggy that I couldn't even finish a single one, apart from the one where I built a really glitchy house. Perhaps calling Skyrim "bad" is too far but the fact remains the game was buried in problems. I can't remember the story, I only remember characters by their appearance and I vaguely remember really bad voice acting, what I remember most about Skyrim was looting caves. For me, retrospectively, I didn't get a lot out of Skyrim even though I remember being amazed by it on release.

Is that really true though? Have you been keeping up with Triple A releases of the past decade? Warcraft 3: Reforged, Mass Effect: Andromeda, Anthem, The Division, Ghost Recon: Breakpoint, Battlefield V, WWE 2K20, and the list goes on and on and on and on. Can good gameplay, carry a game? The players of Fallout 4 seem to think so, since when that came out I remember in my YouTube feed, and what I saw regurgitated on various message boards, "good game, bad Fallout game". On the flipside, can a good story (good writing) carry bad gameplay? Again many players (and reviewers) of various games that suffer from this also seem to think so. I'd say hmm.. Planescape Torment could fall under this category, as an example.

[Edax]

Is that really true though? Have you been keeping up with Triple A releases of the past decade? Warcraft 3: Reforged, Mass Effect: Andromeda, Anthem, The Division, Ghost Recon: Breakpoint, Battlefield V, WWE 2K20, and the list goes on and on and on and on. Can good gameplay, carry a game? The players of Fallout 4 seem to think so, since when that came out I remember in my YouTube feed, and what I saw regurgitated on various message boards, "good game, bad Fallout game". On the flipside, can a good story (good writing) carry bad gameplay? Again many players (and reviewers) of various games that suffer from this also seem to think so.

The answer is no, I haven't played a single one. I was a former Mass Effect fan but from the reviews and gameplay footage of Mass Effect: Andromeda's tired faces and ripped off story, it just wasn't for me. It's subjective if one element can carry it for you personally, but it's objective that there are problems that affect the quality of the game. Bad writing (story or character) is bad, bad gameplay is bad. Ideally AAA games should avoid these to produce a better product.

I enjoy salisbury steak served on a bed of mac and cheese and a pool of gravy, but I know this isn't a quality meal or fine dining.