Aggro Icon

[Wooba]

What does keeping track of mileage in your head have to do with recalling which mobs aggro and which don't?

The aggro icon itself isn't the issue, it is the mentality people have about it. What is so wrong about it? Is it because it is ugly, or because it is too helpful? Any feature that makes the game easier to play gets large amounts of hate from the Hardcore players. This is true of all games. The reason people hate the Aggro icon (Other than it being ugly as Gary Busey) is the simple fact that Hardcore players don't want the new players to have a luxury they didn't have.

Before they changed the SP system, I was a R20 GLA and R8 Sentinel. After the change, there were people who just started ranking their GLA that had already surpassed my SNT Rank simply because they were leveling with the new system. This pissed me off. Why? Because they had it easier than I did.

Same case here. Anyone who has spent time with the game knows what to watch out for, and the fact that it is now obvious as to what aggros and what doesn't makes it easier for newcomers, but was a luxury that we didn't have previous to this patch.

So really...it call comes down to two reasons: The icon is ugly, and it is N00b Friendly.

[Rowyne]

What does keeping track of mileage in your head have to do with recalling which mobs aggro and which don't?

Because there are people that keep claiming that it should all be done from memory, instead of something that makes your life a little easier.

The aggro icon itself isn't the issue, it is the mentality people have about it. What is so wrong about it? Is it because it is ugly, or because it is too helpful? Any feature that makes the game easier to play gets large amounts of hate from the Hardcore players. This is true of all games. The reason people hate the Aggro icon (Other than it being ugly as Gary Busey) is the simple fact that Hardcore players don't want the new players to have a luxury they didn't have.

I think you hit the nail on the head, Wooba. I think there's a lot of misplaced annoyance going on about this because of the 'old man' syndrome (see this thread). Just because we didn't have it back in our day, doesn't mean it isn't a good idea now.

FFXIV needs to move into the future. Evolve or die.

[Picoman]

Because there are people that keep claiming that it should all be done from memory, instead of something that makes your life a little easier.



I think you hit the nail on the head, Wooba. I think there's a lot of misplaced annoyance going on about this because of the 'old man' syndrome (see this thread). Just because we didn't have it back in our day, doesn't mean it isn't a good idea now.

FFXIV needs to move into the future. Evolve or die.

The thing is i understand 100% why the aggro icon has been implemented and i still believe it should be switch down to the target.

I think if i was a new MMO player i would enjoy the feeling of 'Oh crap, what was that? Will it kill me?'
Instead of 'Hey! Oh you have a big red star, wont go that way then.'

[gifthorse]

Because there are people that keep claiming that it should all be done from memory, instead of something that makes your life a little easier.



I think you hit the nail on the head, Wooba. I think there's a lot of misplaced annoyance going on about this because of the 'old man' syndrome (see this thread). Just because we didn't have it back in our day, doesn't mean it isn't a good idea now.

FFXIV needs to move into the future. Evolve or die.

This is not a case of old man syndrome. I would be the first to admit it if it was, because I am a proponent of change, and would usher in a thousand improvements into this game, given the chance. In my opinion, this aggro indicator isn't an improvement. Not for old players, not for new players.

As I've said before, convenience isn't always the best thing. Just because it makes the game easier for new players by telling them which monsters are aggressive, it also deprives new players of many interesting experiences.

I don't want the game to be hard on new players out of maliciousness and spite, I simply don't want to deprive them of the sense of wonder/adventure. Not everyone who plays an MMO plays it to rush through to endgame. Some people like the adventure. The journey is supposed to be as much fun as the destination.

Not knowing what things aggro (usually you can make educated guesses though) is half the fun.

While the aggro indicator is unsightly, that is not the primary reason I dislike it. It's what the indicator stands for which I don't approve of. It strips the game of some of its charm and character, and essentially makes the aggressive mobs into nothing more than that, mobs.

Yoshi said that what this game needed was more peril and danger, and he was absolutely right. The aggro indicator, however, is in direct opposition to that. It makes the world safer... not only safe, but boring.

Not only do the devleopers insist on removing mob behaviours and mannerisms, but now it seems they also want to remove the threat/danger that the agressive mobs pose.

Why have aggressive mobs with talons, teeth, claws and other visible hallmarks of a vicious animal if you're just going to advertise the aggression in another, more overt and unnatural way?

When did MMOs become so mathematical and so soulless?

[Rowyne]

In my opinion, this aggro indicator isn't an improvement. Not for old players, not for new players.

I'm glad we can agree that it's an opinion. In your opinion it's not necessary. In mine, it is.

For me, new and interesting experiences have more to do with lore, exploring landscapes and dungeons, and the visual appearances of said monsters. I'm more intimidated by fangs, claws and sheer size and seeing something that tells me it's a level 100 boss with skull/crossbones and stay away, will eat you for lunch. The fun part doesn't come from approaching it and seeing if it rips my face off or not. Death =/= fun.

Despite the fact that I haven't played FFXI in four years, it instilled in me a great fear of death due to losing XP and possibly deleveling. I don't like being terrified of the unknown all the time, otherwise I'd go play a game with world PvP.

But everybody has a different playstyle. =)

It's becoming obvious that the only way to make everyone happy on this point is to make it an option. Options are good.

[Sorel]

It's becoming obvious that the only way to make everyone happy on this point is to make it an option. Options are good.

I concur. This is a good compromise solution. Are we all agreed?

[gifthorse]

I'm glad we can agree that it's an opinion. In your opinion it's not necessary. In mine, it is.

For me, new and interesting experiences have more to do with lore, exploring landscapes and dungeons, and the visual appearances of said monsters. I'm more intimidated by fangs, claws and sheer size and seeing something that tells me it's a level 100 boss with skull/crossbones and stay away, will eat you for lunch. The fun part doesn't come from approaching it and seeing if it rips my face off or not. Death =/= fun.

Despite the fact that I haven't played FFXI in four years, it instilled in me a great fear of death due to losing XP and possibly deleveling. I don't like being terrified of the unknown all the time, otherwise I'd go play a game with world PvP.

But everybody has a different playstyle. =)

It's becoming obvious that the only way to make everyone happy on this point is to make it an option. Options are good.

I pity your outlook on things. If you play an MMO to explore landscapes, dungeons, and encounter mobs, then you of all people should be able to appreciate the lack of tact that an aggro indicator has. An aggro indicator is just a convenient and inartistic way of displaying a mobs behaviour. They should strive to take a more artistic and realistic approach to display aggresion: i.e., making the aggressive monsters look ferocious.

Oh wait, what do you know, 99% of them DO look ferocious!

[Umo]

As I've said before, convenience isn't always the best thing.
[...]
While the aggro indicator is unsightly, that is not the primary reason I dislike it. It's what the indicator stands for which I don't approve of. It strips the game of some of its charm and character, and essentially makes the aggressive mobs into nothing more than that, mobs.

Yoshi said that what this game needed was more peril and danger, and he was absolutely right. The aggro indicator, however, is in direct opposition to that. It makes the world safer... not only safe, but boring.
[...]
When did MMOs become so mathematical and so soulless?

Get out of my head! :P
+1 for that. Absolutely.