AST Celestial Opposition

[Bobsmiaw]

I wonder why celestial opposition give a same effect as asp helios?
Would it be better if we have the opposite effect like celestial intersection?

I mean D.AST have 3 party regen with all 100 potency while N.AST only have a very limited party regen (neutral sect).

Maybe we can change CO like this:
- D.AST: 200 heal + 100% shield (30 sec)
- N.AST: 200 heal + 75 regen (15 sec)

To balance the change, CU also can be change like this:
-D.AST: 100 regen (15 sec), no longer give dmg reduction
-N.AST: 10% dmg reduction (18 sec), no longer give regen

Maybe this will help N.AST to compete with SCH?
What do you think?

[Hanayumi]

Yeah that would be interesting but when it comes down to it, I kinda rather have opposition just be a straight up fairly strong heal without the noct or dur effect. Lol

[Averax]

I actually agree that the effects should be swapped.

Nocturnal has no regen to speak of outside of intersection and neutral sect. Meanwhile scholar has whispering dawn.

Actually if they just made it a regen for both sects that would probably also be fine, because the mitigation isn't that great unless paired with N. aspected helios.

[Bobsmiaw]

Thx for the feedback
N.AST is horible because lack of HoT, while D.AST feels overdose with regen.

I really want more skill that affected by sect.
So at least we will have:
- Aspected skill
- Celestial skill (opposite sect effect but weaker)
- CU

This can make AST more flexible and fun :3

[Limonia]

I think it could be too overpowered maybe. WHM also has no kind of AoE shield (Temperance is a defense buff like the effect of Collective Unconscious), and AST already has Neutral Sect if you need shields.
Also, regens are usually more useful than shields anyway. I like that it's a free AoE regen, you rarely need Aspected Helios because of it (and vice versa in Nocturnal).

[Bobsmiaw]

I think it could be too overpowered maybe. WHM also has no kind of AoE shield (Temperance is a defense buff like the effect of Collective Unconscious), and AST already has Neutral Sect if you need shields.
Also, regens are usually more useful than shields anyway. I like that it's a free AoE regen, you rarely need Aspected Helios because of it (and vice versa in Nocturnal).

The shield maybe too strong so i think we can adjust it like this:
-D.AST: 150 heal + 100% shield
-N.AST: 150 heal + 80 regen (15 sec)

Estimation for shield value will be around 6k hp.
Current raid wide dmg is around 60k hp.
So the shield more or less equal to 10% dmg reduction.
This will compensate the lost of 10% dmg reduction in Diurnal CU.

I think D.AST neutral sect is used for continous mitigation.
WHM, SCH, and N.AST have continous mitigation with around 15 - 20 sec duration.

This change also buffing N.AST while nerfing D.AST in term of healing output.
I think D.AST is too powerfull with all its free regen.

[Synaesthesia]

I don't know. While I can really agree with you that there's a lack of regen healing with the loss of collective unconscious' old effect, I personally like the ability to stack the two shields together to provide a stronger defense against ride wide mechanics like a Scholar can do with deployment tactics.. Making this change would allow Astrologian to compete more in one area but lessen their ability to compete in another, making their only window to do this sort of thing in neutral sect while in diurnal.. Which I feel would just shoehorn the class even more into that sect.

I'd like to see them add an additional regen effect to Nocturnal as well.. But I feel that it should be separated from making any changes to Diurnal and shouldn't reduce their shielding potential which is already lower than Scholars.. Like possibly just giving Horoscope a regen effect if evolved to Horoscope Helios while in Nocturnal or evaulating whether maybe just adding a persistent regen back into Nocturnal collective would be overpowering.

[Bobsmiaw]

I don't know. While I can really agree with you that there's a lack of regen healing with the loss of collective unconscious' old effect, I personally like the ability to stack the two shields together to provide a stronger defense against ride wide mechanics like a Scholar can do with deployment tactics.. Making this change would allow Astrologian to compete more in one area but lessen their ability to compete in another, making their only window to do this sort of thing in neutral sect while in diurnal.. Which I feel would just shoehorn the class even more into that sect.

I'd like to see them add an additional regen effect to Nocturnal as well.. But I feel that it should be separated from making any changes to Diurnal and shouldn't reduce their shielding potential which is already lower than Scholars.. Like possibly just giving Horoscope a regen effect if evolved to Horoscope Helios while in Nocturnal or evaulating whether maybe just adding a persistent regen back into Nocturnal collective would be overpowering.

I actually have an idea for reworking Horoscope.
Horoscope skill animation is like a time manipulatio (the clock rewind/backwards).
So why dont we change its effect to time manipulation like this:
D.AST
Reset regen duration (rewind time effect).
N.AST
Reapply same value of shield/double shield value (rewind time to apply shield).

Neutral Sect is a really strong CD but dont you think it is too strong?
We have access to both sect effect in full potency with +20% additonal healing buff for 15 sec.
I keep thingking will it be okay to reduce the potency of opposite sect effect maybe the potency is like 60-70% from the original?

In term of balancing healer, we can add an additional party shield for WHM that cost 2 Lily (afflatus veil?).
With this all healer will have access to shield and regen effect.

[Eloah]

I feel a lot of people who are questioning this change don't play AST in Nocturnal that often.

As a SCH, I get shields, so when I do play AST, I play on Nocturnal Sect as often as I can. Curse you dual AST/SCH making me go on Diurnal. Anyways, back in HW and SB, it was quite common for Diurnal to be the primary for trash, and possibly switch to Nocturnal for bosses. But now with the changes SE has made, both Sects are equally as viable, and they did it in a way that doesnt make SCH shields feel incredibly weak overall.

The biggest change that SE has made is the ability to stack shields. Something SCHs have asked for since the anticipation of new skills for HW. Don't get me wrong, SE should definitely play up the whole dual aspect angle on AST. But finally having stackable shields is a major improvement for both SCH and AST, especially since regens could always stack. Although, SCH could use a better secondary shield compared to Seraph, she's not as consistent as people might think. She's not bad, but but every SCH capstone skill starting at 60 is meh. Compared to the other two, I think just reducing her CD to 90s would make her more usable, but that's just me.

Neutral Sect is a really strong CD but dont you think it is too strong?
We have access to both sect effect in full potency with +20% additonal healing buff for 15 sec.
I keep thingking will it be okay to reduce the potency of opposite sect effect maybe the potency is like 60-70% from the original?

In term of balancing healer, we can add an additional party shield for WHM that cost 2 Lily (afflatus veil?).
With this all healer will have access to shield and regen effect.

EDIT: added in the quote, since bringing up Neutral Sect was "odd" apparently.

Also on the topic of Neutral Sect. ASTs definitely drew the long straw for that buff, but I can't say it's as OP as it might look, mostly cause I don't use it that often. If anything, I'd say just reduce the increase from 20% to 10%. But then again WHM's buff is similar with a boost in healing and damage reduction.

Something similar should happen for Dissipation as well, the worst of the buff skills, though I can't simply say just increase the percentage. Maybe allow for Aetherflow skills to be used without charges, but even that seems bad since only Lustrate would become spammable. It does need something to make it more of a healing tool instead of a DPS tool. Also I hope in 6.0 they shuffle the 60/70/80 skills around for SCH and fix their odd lockouts. The Fey Gauge should be available a lot sooner than 70.

SE does seem to have a habit of introducing something, but only giving us one outlet for it. At that point, why not just give it to us as a CD? A gauge needs 3 skills minimum to make sense, otherwise it's just a glorified CD.

[Side-Eye]

snip

Interesting. In replying to an idea for improving a specific AST ability, you suggest nerfing an AST ability that wasn't even in the topic, then you suggest improving a SCH shield and/or pet, improving a SCH buff skill, re-ordering SCH 60/70/80 skills, fix SCH lockouts, lower the level on SCH guage.... are we missing anything? Did you, oh I dunno, maybe wanna start an SCH thread?