Thread: The Patch 5.2 Discussion Thread! (Spoilers)

Originally Posted by Lauront

My only reluctance with saying it's Hydaelyn (although I do think it resembles her anyway, due to the form the High Seraph bears for her upper body), is that the insect part is a better fit with the lower body of the High Seraph. Still, there's no context to go with it, so I am eager to see when and why it's going to pop up. As for the number of Ascians, because the Esper names and sigils are purely a hat tip to XII, it allows them to keep the 14th's identity secret for now. I am sure the Ascians have elevated someone to this office in the meantime, possibly even a fragment of the WoL's Amaurotine self, although that may come down to how tempering works (i.e. did the WoL's ancient soul summon Hydaelyn, and if so, were they tempered, and would this endure beyond the point of being sundered?) With only 13 Espers but 14 Convocation members, they have free reign to keep the gender, sigil and office a bit vague for now, and map some attributes to your character.

Hm... I don't think the Ascians have elevated a 14th member. Remember, each of the 13 Convocation Members who summoned Zodiark were tempered, and then sundered. Those 13 are Zodiark's key followers, and Elidibus/Lahabrea/Emet uplifted a fragment of the other 9 sundered Ascians. The uplifted fragments are probably sympathetic to the cause, as they are tempered.

The hypothetical 14th Convocation Member/WoL was never tempered by Zodiark, and is not sympathetic to his cause. The 14th's/WoLs have the Blessing of Light. If anything, it seems like the Ascians would want to kill the 14th/WoL for being the biggest pain in the ass in the history of ever, fighting them and sabotaging their plan to resurrect the people of Amaurot for millennia across 14 worlds. So far, it seems only Emet had an inkling as to WoL's true identity, and he was only willing to tolerate the WoL because he was his friend long ago.

Also, if you look at the Chrysalis, there are only 12 seats (with Elidibus standing in the middle).

Originally Posted by MoofiaBossVal

Hm... I don't think the Ascians have elevated a 14th member. Remember, each of the 13 Convocation Members who summoned Zodiark were tempered, and then sundered. Those 13 are Zodiark's key followers, and Elidibus/Lahabrea/Emet uplifted a fragment of the other 9 sundered Ascians. The uplifted fragments are probably sympathetic to the cause, as they are tempered.

The hypothetical 14th Convocation Member/WoL was never tempered by Zodiark, and is not sympathetic to his cause. The 14th's/WoLs have the Blessing of Light. If anything, it seems like the Ascians would want to kill the 14th/WoL for being the biggest pain in the ass in the history of ever, fighting them and sabotaging their plan to resurrect the people of Amaurot for millennia across 14 worlds. So far, it seems only Emet had an inkling as to WoL's true identity, and he was only willing to tolerate the WoL because he was his friend long ago.

Also, if you look at the Chrysalis, there are only 12 seats (with Elidibus standing in the middle).

I counted 7 per side, which with Elidibus would make it 15. Thus it was that for years people thought that he was not counted in the total, which made sense given his function of Emissary, and that there was one Ascian per shard, with Lahabrea (who takes up the empty seat in that screenshot) taking charge over the Source. Of course, we now know it's all a bit different to that. I reckon that scene may in part be the reason for SE now bringing in this "Oracle of Darkness".

10 of them were sundered, and 3 were not. It's not entirely clear whether the tempering survived the sundering, although Emet-Selch gave some indication it would given their affinity to Zodiark, so I'll grant that it's a reasonable assumption although to my memory it's not outright confirmed. Nonetheless, it's how I read it too.

All that being said, there is nothing stopping them from elevating someone else to the 14th office given that, as Emet-Selch said, whilst they have a preference for the fragments of the original members of the Convocation, because they have an affinity to Zodiark and also out of a respect to them, it does not have to be one of them.

Without firm data on whether the WoL's own soul and all its fragments are tempered, or not, and whether, even so, they could somehow substitute this with Zodiark's own tempering (in order to restore to them the powers of their office), I'd say it is certainly within the realm of possibility that one of the character's shards could be elevated to their ranks. Pre-existing tempering would not be necessary for it and could be taken care of once they assent to join them, as the tempered can spread it to others themselves. Whether or not this has happened is not material to the office itself, though.

That is because someone vacating the office would not mean that the office itself - which predated said individual and was separate from them - ceased to be a part of the Convocation. So in my view it is an open possibility that they may have elevated someone to this office.

Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

We have no idea what happened with the Heart of Sabik after the Preatorium. That said, the last person we do know of in the area with the Heart of Sabik is Gaius himself. And he has been somehow killing Ascians without being able to manipulate aether himself. Given that the Heart of Sabik can absorb aether like no one's business, its been speculated in some areas of the fandom that Gaius has the Heart of Sabik still and is using it to kill Ascians.

It's possible, but it's also worth recalling he's accompanied by two mages. Sundered Overlords, whilst powerful, aren't on the same level as the unsundered, and I guess we don't really know whether he has truly killed them or not. I'm hoping we do get some follow up about the Heart of Sabik in the future and they indicated it'd be coming eventually here... but threw in a "maybe". Guess we'll see if 5.2 covers it.

Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

It's called Ruby Weapon because that is what the same mecha-like being is called in FFVII. The other main WEAPONS in FFVII are Sapphire weapon, Emerald weapon and Ultimate weapon...

The Weapons (or WEAPONs) in VII are:

• Sapphire Weapon (attacks Junon and gets its face blown off by the Sister Ray)
• Ultima(te) Weapon (attacks Mideel and is driven off by the party; later functions as a roaming boss)
• Diamond Weapon (slowly advances toward Midgar and blasts it, only to be destroyed by the Sister Ray in an exchange of volleys)
• Ruby Weapon (superboss under the Corel Desert in NTSC and onward versions)
• Emerald Weapon (superboss on the seafloor in NTSC and onward versions)

Being products of the planet itself, the Weapons in VII are organic beings. (OK, maybe biomechanical.) There are a few more in the Compilation, as well.

• Jade Weapon (summoned by the planet to deal with Zirconade in Before Crisis; attacks the Turks due to them defeating the latter)
• Omega Weapon - this one has a unique function in that instead of simply being an "antibody" to deal with planetary threats, it's intended to be used as an ark for the planet's lifestream in the event of a cataclysmic event that would end all life. (Awoken by Hojo in Dirge of Cerberus in a bid towards godhood)
• Chaos - not technically a Weapon, but a compliment to Omega Weapon. Serves as a Grim Reaper intended to end all life on the planet to prepare it for being absorbed by Omega Weapon. Fused to Vincent Valentine to save his life as per his backstory, it requires a Protomateria to fully control. (Returned to the planet at the end of VII - DoC)

Of these, I would wager Diamond and Emerald have the highest chance of appearing; Sapphire is plot-relevant, but Diamond is as well and Emerald is simply too iconic.

I might actually bother to do Cinder Drift EX, if the GNB weapon is nice enough. (Lack of skins for new class' weapons is disappointing.)

According to Hythlodaeus' (or Emet-Selch's with full context if you prefer) account all of Hydaelyn's summoners sacrificed themselves in summoning her, so rogue Hydaelyn-tempered worshipers seems unlikely.

Apropos of nothing, QA screwed up big time so I serendipitously have tomorrow off. Get to go at it pretty much as soon as it goes live!

Regarding the Weapons:

(I forgot their names, derp.)

Au'ra in Red was the Ruby. Blue haired Au'ra said he pilots Sapphire. So my guess is that green haired one will be Emerald and then BOTH the white haired will pilot the Diamond weapon. That's my genuine belief of what's going to happen, either that or the one that was happy to see Gaius ends up sitting out of that one.

Eden storyline:

Love the music and the boss design and mechanics. I'm not exactly a fan of Gaia's story in the way they did it:

She went from recovering from the battle to fully healed and in her unique outfit. I would have preferred we were there when she regained consciousness, is distant, and then goes to Eulmore and gets her outfit and shows off the personality she has. As is I feel like she suddenly got dumped on us without a proper introduction. Purely my own personal opinion. Also her and Ryne are adorable together, I totally ship them tbh. I'm wondering how the story will conclude and while I have a few theories I'm excited to see what will happen in the third raid tier.

MSQ:

Goddamn, there's a lot to unpack here, I'm not even sure where to start. First let me say that I didn't think the new MSQ got remotely interesting until the dungeon where we got some pretty huge lore reveals in every cutscene that followed with some massive lore implications. My standing theory is Eli is trying to trigger another flood of light by tipping the scales again resulting in us (the WoD) against the new WoL's to make sure that the balance is maintained.

I'm still processing the entire Echo thing, I'm not even sure where to start but I REALLY wanna talk about it.