Fighting Desperately...

[Crysten]

You sure are talking like I need to stfu and gtfo with the things I've said because you've had no trouble in regard to the things I've mentioned. What I'm saying is, is the more you grease the rail from the beginning of the game through Lv50, the more endgame you're going to need to come up with - and fast. My OP stated, "I suppose it just makes better sense to milk the cow and market the milk". R.J. Reynolds & Co. makes money off marketing cigarettes to healthy human beings.

I might be coming off as direct sure, but don't use my tone as a means to belittle my argument.

You have a fair concern in terms of greasing the rails but I've already made my point several times in the last few posts. What will happen in 2.0 is pure conjecture on anyone's part but the game in it's current state offers a clear choice of content and a fair ol' grind from 1-50 at the moment. If someone wants to skip that grind, they can do so and get into XIV's endgame pretty quickly should they have the resources to do so. It's not like every Joe Schmuck with a linkshell has immediate access to PL parties.

Will it all change come 2.0? Maybe, maybe not. Either way, the game in it's current form isn't going to change anytime soon. There's no point.

this is why this game is already slated for death, how many successful WoW clones have you seen that have succeeded in the long run....ill give you a hint, its the #0.

FFWoW will be no exception, the wow fans will come bitch for 2 years about how hard its is to get there goobue mount. Then once they've derailed the game dissecting it piece by piece and changing its development processes they will do what all WoW fans do GO back to wow as its will remain the only game that actually wipes your ass for you.

Hey Ivan! :O

A fair point, though SWTOR currently has about 1.7 million subscribers right now. Whether that'll change in the long run remains to be seen but I think that has gotten where it is largely due to the power of brand recognition. Final Fantasy has that kind of power in the name department, especially in Japan.

XIV won't beat WoW, I'm pretty certain of that, but I reckon with enough love the game could at least gain a sizable subscriber base. XIV's biggest hurdle is getting over all the negative stigma people already have, really.

[Peptaru]

FFXIV's biggest hurdle is making it to 2.0 so all the people who /ragequit because the game was terrible MIGHT come back. Its a stigma they earned themselves by failing. The brand power of FF has been ridiculously damaged, they USED to have that kind of power, before XIV, before XIII, but now?.... idk.

[TheVedis]

Hey Ivan! :O

A fair point, though SWTOR currently has about 1.7 million subscribers right now. Whether that'll change in the long run remains to be seen but I think that has gotten where it is largely due to the power of brand recognition. Final Fantasy has that kind of power in the name department, especially in Japan.

XIV won't beat WoW, I'm pretty certain of that, but I reckon with enough love the game could at least gain a sizable subscriber base. XIV's biggest hurdle is getting over all the negative stigma people already have, really.

star wars may have subscribers right now, but heres the thing

its still a relatively new game, and itl sell based on the name alone

tons of people i know who played it have already quit, and im sure tons more will be on their way out shortly, after about a year, do you really think itl still have as many people? probly not, itl have a fraction of that, just as every other wow clone has ended up having after people wake up and realize what they are playing

[ArnoMorley]

FFXIV's biggest hurdle is making it to 2.0 so all the people who /ragequit because the game was terrible MIGHT come back. Its a stigma they earned themselves by failing. The brand power of FF has been ridiculously damaged, they USED to have that kind of power, before XIV, before XIII, but now?.... idk.

I think brand damage has been happening since X-2, 13/14 were just so much worse that now it's all catching up to them. The biggest reason why the brand is failing is that Sakaguchi is gone. His last FF was XI and look how successful it was, before that his last FF was X. X sold 6.6mil copies okay well the first project after he was gone (X-2) sold 4 million, then 12 sold 5 million and 13 sold 6mil.

That's a bigger decline than it even looks like if you take population growth into consideration. Without him the games weren't nearly as good so they sold a lot less. If he had still been there X-2 would have sold 6 mil+, XII would have sold 7-8 mil+ and XIII might have sold 8-9 mil+. They made him leave because the spirits within lost $120mil, but not having him there this past decade cost them at least $300mil and that's not counting FFXIV failing.

FF is not the same brand it was. Star Wars is still a strong brand because Lucas is still there, Final Fantasy had it's head cut off and most of it's team stripped away. SE just throws in a bunch of nobodies to take their places.

[Nabiri]

and there is mid-game content for those who wish to persue it.

I was just thinking about this... I still don't feel there actually is any mid-game content in FFXIV.
When I did Toto-rak for the first time with a group around the appropriate level (intending to do something exciting, with challenge), two members suddenly decided to switch to level 50 and plow through everything like it was nothing. I didn't feel we did/accomplished anything and it definitely wasn't fun. It really just made me want to log off and never log on again.
I really hope they fix this with a level cap. :\ It kinda ruined my first impression of these "wonderful" raids everyone seems to love so much. I expected better in a Final Fantasy MMO.

[Xoo]

Of course there is mid-game content. What I'm complaining about is the quality of that content. By this point, leveling up seems a simple formality - a bothersome obstacle that to some, apparently is inessential. This is exactly the notion that bothers me most. RPG games are what they are due to gradual character growth, and not boss battles. They do play a role, but do not define the genre.

[Zelkelion]

Of course there is mid-game content. What I'm complaining about is the quality of that content. By this point, leveling up seems a simple formality - a bothersome obstacle that to some, apparently is inessential. This is exactly the notion that bothers me most. RPG games are what they are do to gradual character growth, and not boss battles. They do play a role, but do not define the genre.

When people express a need to level up, my response is: "why?". In most games it's because you're doing other things and experiencing quests and storylines and basically just level up as you go. Even in quests that are "go here, kill that, fetch this", they're not nearly as bland and unappealing as the damned leves. In this game I feel no inspiration to level... the world just isn't interesting enough. Hell, there are only THREE cities! And I've seen them all!

[Enfarious]

When people express a need to level up, my response is: "why?". In most games it's because you're doing other things and experiencing quests and storylines and basically just level up as you go. Even in quests that are "go here, kill that, fetch this", they're not nearly as bland and unappealing as the damned leves. In this game I feel no inspiration to level... the world just isn't interesting enough. Hell, there are only THREE cities! And I've seen them all!

I couldn't agree more, and while typically I'd say the grind is also when people can/should learn to play and master each job they do level in this mastery is just a matter of pressing buttons in time.

The only content they've provided up to this point is the "EG" the story content is a very nice story but short, not team-centric, not to say you should have to have a pt for it, and doesn't really require much "getting around". I hate to say in FFXI cause it really does get over used as an example and I'm certainly one to use it when/where I can. But in FFXI we at least had to travel the world, spend some time in each zone, and there were multiple places where a pt was an option, though not always needed. There were reasons to grind and reasons to stop grinding and do other things. Hell you don't even need to make money in this just do a few R40 leves @5stars and your good.

[JakeRoon]

By this point, leveling up seems a simple formality - a bothersome obstacle that to some, apparently is inessential. This is exactly the notion that bothers me most. RPG games are what they are due to gradual character growth, .

I can see that you love to level up, I know many many Korean grind hell games you would love (lineage 2 comes right to mind damn what a grind)

But....what you must grasp is that "Leveling up through a massive grind" is NOT (((UTTERRRLLLLY NOT-WATCH MY CAPS-NOT) what must define the genre any longer....

It just plain old school BS that is long since ded, dee eee dee, ded.....

Modern gamers (some old some young) are just not going to stand for it anymore. It's slow and boring.

You might as well be here spouting off about how the world so go back to horse and buggy vs cars.

It's over Xoo, the jury is out, boring grinds are on death row.

Course nothing is stopping you from visiting them there. But please stop compagianing to release that public terror back on the streets.

/harp-off

What we are saying is there are 34720340234802830482093840983204 more fun ways to make a game fun, challenged, and engaging without having "level ups"

Look at the ratchet and clank series or the Jax and Daxter series or the Assasin's creed Franchise. All these games have rpg elements and a well paced character development from weaker to very powerfull.

Closer to our own genere you can look at the record breaking Guild Wars, and guild wars 2 (which looks awesome btw I hope you role-play it with us ^^) which are essentially "level-less". They tout "If you love mmos you'll want to check out our game, if you HATE mmos you'll REALLY want to check out our game."

And they are right....

In the modern gamers perspective more of the game should be FUN with less boredom. A game should be a compleation of 15000 small rewards that are challenging yes, but very accomplish-able in a play session of a couple hours each.

A game shoud not just consist of a few fun parts that you get to do very occasionally after a long grind of boredom. We don't think that's okay.... I won't stand for it in fact.

I want to challenge my game developers to THINK and inovate, and to be creative and really apply all their artistry and talent to a game.

I think they deserve that from us, NO i think this medium NEEDS that from us as gamers.

Join the revolution Xoo, fight for better games, fun games, memorable game moments every time you log in.

POWER TO THE GAMERSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!

[Gukswar]

This game suck as it is now--- paying for 2 account to hope this game improves... ';-; if this game suck i'll quit by 2.0