Fighting Desperately...

[YUGON]

Yugon, you have to understand that it doesn't make much sense when you post this:



And then you "totally agree!" with this:



Sort of sending mixed messages there, bud.

I agreed with the "irony" of "Grats on your THM50! etc.." in the way that playing that way is not like playing (personal opinion). I do not want to go back to FFXI. That game had it's time, and now is XIV time, but that doesn't mean that EVERYONE has to make a post to tell that "they want to go back to FFXI because....", because is the same that "Please, implement "whatever FFXI had" threads.

Hope you understand me better. If not... Sorry! xD

[Xoo]

I agreed with the "irony" of "Grats on your THM50! etc.." in the way that playing that way is not like playing (personal opinion). I do not want to go back to FFXI. That game had it's time, and now is XIV time, but that doesn't mean that EVERYONE has to make a post to tell that "they want to go back to FFXI because....", because is the same that "Please, implement "whatever FFXI had" threads.

I understand and agree that I don't have any special entitlements in posting this thread, yet, the true point of it was to get people talking. It was meant as a catalyst. Even a TROLL THREAD, if you choose to see it that way. Only in this thread's last 2-3 pages has it emerged from the flame-war and the endless, inevitable debate over the difference between 'time-sink' and 'challenge'. Notice that by my second or third post, I let go of that argument, because that's not the issue I intended this thread to settle.

[Sasagawa]

Yugon.

You are correct XI has had its time and it is now XIVs time

However that does not mean that we have to except XIV as it is or that the direction of MMORPGs is in our/my OPINION going up shit creek without a paddle.

TBH how a culture choses to enjoy themselves (i.e Games Multimedia etc) is historically often a reflection of their societal values. I am ashamed to be living through an era where people think they are "entitled" to almost everything and anything without even lifting one finger or even just being nice.

To sum it up this is probably what it all comes down to

[UmJammerSully]

I don't want what FFXIV is now and what is apparently going to grow up to be: Beyond Casual

I know, right? I mean just yesterday I solo'd moogle and got all the weapons, then I went through Aurum Vale with a friend and I beat Mistress whilst playing Bejewelled.

Seriously, what the HELL are you talking about? So many stupid people throw around the word casual as just a default negative word, and supposedly FFXIV is "beyond casual"?

Planting crops in Farmville is casual.

Knocking some pigs over in Angry Birds is casual.

Spending 6 hours in Aurum Vale, tweaking strategies, co-ordinating party members and ultimately returning again the next day because you didn't get the one drop you were after is not casual.

[Galoot]

Killing one enemy repeatedly is not difficult, given you come prepared.

When I say 'prepared', I mean your tank has to do his best to keep hate off the Black Mage, Samurai, and Ranger (difficulty); Your Thief has to be quick with SATA and use status bolts (depth); Your mages have to monitor their output closely so as not to pull hate (difficulty); Your Red Mage should employ every applicable debuff to the mob while also serving as a backup healer and nuker (depth); The experienced Bard should be able to keep the action going without interruption (gameplay).

If you do not have a majority of these qualities in your group, then killing crabs over and over is going to be a long and painful process. Of course, killing the same mob repeatedly is what we do in this game now, so I'm not sure what point you're digging at.

Thank you! Someone else finally talking about game mechanics and fighting strategies. Although you fight the same mob, you can always do it faster and better. And when my PT was rolling, I was loving it. In every game we kill the same things over and over, name a game and it happens. What made FFXI's battle system so great was that if someone was weak or didn't know how to do their part, that PT felt it. If everyone knows what they're doing and SCs are flying and MBs are going off it was great. But enter TP PTs, Abyssea, and now FFXIV and it's a spam fest with no regard to any strategy because none is needed...thus the fun of the fight and leveling is lost and with it the journey lessens.

[Hayden]

Why do people feel the need to whine and moan about how much they don't like the game on the forums? Just drop the game get another and get over it. Honestly... it's like all your trying to do is be a downer and bring down everyone who actually LIKES the game...

[Crysten]

Thank you! Someone else finally talking about game mechanics and fighting strategies. Although you fight the same mob, you can always do it faster and better. And when my PT was rolling, I was loving it. In every game we kill the same things over and over, name a game and it happens. What made FFXI's battle system so great was that if someone was weak or didn't know how to do their part, that PT felt it. If everyone knows what they're doing and SCs are flying and MBs are going off it was great. But enter TP PTs, Abyssea, and now FFXIV and it's a spam fest with no regard to any strategy because none is needed...thus the fun of the fight and leveling is lost and with it the journey lessens.

First of all, I will first say that in certain places XI did have some strategy to it - Kirin in particular springs to mind, but honestly, all those strategies boiled down to was "hit your macro with the right timing and pay attention to not suck." Fights like the past King Anthro were great ideas but as you say, the game is now simply "zerg it with temps until one of you dies."

The thing is though, XIV has this "deep" system too - if one of your party members doesn't know the core mechanics to Ifrit, damn right you're going to feel that as well. I've found a lot of the fights in XIV far more engaging and far more strategic than XI - Ifrit is all about timing and reflexes (and yeah, I know people get pissy about lag on cracks). Moogles starts with a planned zerg strategy then switches to an endurance fight. Batraal requires the party to co-ordinate and split up. The job system might be entirely diverse yet but it's still in it's infancy.

Also, people keep mentioning "it's all about the journey." Everyone's journey is unique and everyone has the right to go about that journey however they please. If someone wants to solo grind all the way to 50 or have their level 50 friend PL them up to spend time together, then that's up to the individual. Whether that journey takes months or years, it shouldn't even matter.

Just because you don't like the way some people play the game, doesn't mean it's the way that EVERYONE should play the game. It's their journey, and they can take whatever path they Goddam please.

EDIT:: I also approve of my new Yoshi-P avatar. Nice April Fools guys, loool

[Galoot]

First of all, I will first say that in certain places XI did have some strategy to it - Kirin in particular springs to mind, but honestly, all those strategies boiled down to was "hit your macro with the right timing and pay attention to not suck." Fights like the past King Anthro were great ideas but as you say, the game is now simply "zerg it with temps until one of you dies."

The thing is though, XIV has this "deep" system too - if one of your party members doesn't know the core mechanics to Ifrit, damn right you're going to feel that as well. I've found a lot of the fights in XIV far more engaging and far more strategic than XI - Ifrit is all about timing and reflexes (and yeah, I know people get pissy about lag on cracks). Moogles starts with a planned zerg strategy then switches to an endurance fight. Batraal requires the party to co-ordinate and split up. The job system might be entirely diverse yet but it's still in it's infancy.

Also, people keep mentioning "it's all about the journey." Everyone's journey is unique and everyone has the right to go about that journey however they please. If someone wants to solo grind all the way to 50 or have their level 50 friend PL them up to spend time together, then that's up to the individual. Whether that journey takes months or years, it shouldn't even matter.

Just because you don't like the way some people play the game, doesn't mean it's the way that EVERYONE should play the game. It's their journey, and they can take whatever path they Goddam please.

EDIT:: I also approve of my new Yoshi-P avatar. Nice April Fools guys, loool

I was speaking more in terms of EXP PTs and the way it made leveling feel more exciting and fun. In FFXIV I don't care that it is fast or anything like that, but I don't think it's engaging or fun in my opinion of course. Not sure where you got the idea that I want everyone to play a certain way...Your point about anyone can play how they want, I certainly agree with that as my gaming changes day to day with RL in the mix, sometimes just wanting to hop on for a half hour or so. Also, you're a fellow Gungir and Gridanian, look forward to crossing paths.

[Xoo]

I know, right? I mean just yesterday I solo'd moogle and got all the weapons, then I went through Aurum Vale with a friend and I beat Mistress whilst playing Bejewelled.

Seriously, what the HELL are you talking about? So many stupid people throw around the word casual as just a default negative word, and supposedly FFXIV is "beyond casual"?

Planting crops in Farmville is casual.

Knocking some pigs over in Angry Birds is casual.

Spending 6 hours in Aurum Vale, tweaking strategies, co-ordinating party members and ultimately returning again the next day because you didn't get the one drop you were after is not casual.

I think what you really mean is you discovered a strategy (be it self-formulated or video reference), and on your 10,000th successful run, finally got all the weapons, the one weapon you really wanted, your first weapon, or none at all! I'll agree these instanced battles do require strategy and competence to win, but once you've nailed that, the only challenge that remains is the 15min CD and abysmal drop rate. How can you say that spamming CC/AV 30-35x per day is difficult or fun?

And as Galoot pointed out, what I AM talking about is more the game value from Lv1-50. There is content for Lv50 that is growing as time passes, but for those of us who enjoy playing through this period with other people in an MMORPG - we feel a bit short-changed.

This point of view has less to do with preference of play-style and more with the mass who choose and have chosen to abuse Powerleveling to the point where the remainder are 'forced' to convert and given little choice to stand in one spot while someone else progresses their character for them.

[JakeRoon]

Why do so many ppl have Yoshi P's Avatar, that's lame....including myself.....

just sayin.

Anyhow yeah go play ffxi with some freinds who play like you all want to, have a great time, sounds like fun.