Fighting Desperately...

[Andrien]

I remember FFXI release, the Japanese one. There was no AH back at the beginning, and you couldn't see pt members on the map. Good thing there is patches.. ::hint hint::

[Enfarious]

Well, going back to the OP's original topic:

If you intend to go back to FFXI re-live those "hardcore" days then you are going to get slapped with a huge of dose of post-2012 reality. Sure, you still have the rather restrictive PS2-port UI to deal with, so you won't get your flashy combo lights or "click here" prompts as you eloquently put. However, you are certainly not going to spending 3-4 months to get to level 99 unless you plan to play solo and in the most tedious way possible (meaning: no Grounds of Valor/Fields of Valor pages).

You think partying/power leveling is in bad in XIV? Squeezing your way into an Abyssea group post 30 will likely net you the 99 cap (presuming you have the cap quests done) in less than 5 sessions (1 or 2 if you have a good group that lasts the entire day). If that's not option, people typically level--ahem, "leech" in alliances nowadays at Gusgen Mines, Crawler's Nest, Garlaige Citadel, Bostineaux Obliquette, and so forth. Seriously, before I quit FFXI (again) there were people in C Nest--at the appropriate level of 40+ wearing...crap, level 1 gear and extra accessory pieces.

So no--if you return today, you are not going to feel FFXI from circa-2004.

You left out the people that for what ever reason haven't got abyssea access and are @80 in a levelsync in CN w/ 40's, again wearing "Lizard Gear" w/ a bronze dagger ...

[Enfarious]

FFXI was already great before 10 years had passed. IMO that's an awful arguement. How long was it out before the release of Zilart? >>>Was released in the states w/ this expansion after ~2years of "growth" in Japan <<< From the release of Zilart it was fantastic until a certain expansion made it as easy as XIV, no?

Not sure how this is flying over peoples heads.

You misunderstand my meaning. In FFXI the game wasn't "broken"
Clarification: FFXI was good at release FFXIV was not, broken UI broken Combat ... the list is f'in long.;

, what I mean by "didn't start with everything already in place" is: it didn't have 10 years worth of expansion content included, no MMO to date has all the content included from day one. Find one that didn't have expansions, level cap increases, and the like.
Clarification: FFXI as well as FFXIV and all other MMOs have content added over time, how was that not clear?

FFXIV was released in a beta(barely) quality state, it was a train wreck and the persons responsible have been replaced, or does noone remember that part.
Clarification: see clarification 1;

That does not mean that it's content for the next 10 years worth of expansions should have been present at release date though.
Clarification: Expansions like in all others should be added as time passes.

As for time frame that things went downhill, well anyone playing when abyssea was released can tell you when it went to hell. When a 99pld asks what "Provoke" is for and then says should I "cure" myself or "do I need to use a shield, I'd rather use a g.sword" ...

[Peptaru]

The person who you were posting in response to was posting about people capping everything and how it tied into nothing to do comments. FFXIV has nothing to do despite everything they've added, yes they killed their team that started it, but that still doesn't justify its current state.

People who capped to 50 before the Zilart/adds that came after the initial release were serious gamers devoting serious time to a new game.... in FFXIV everyone caps everything in a month or two, with minimal time investment (save for the people who come on here sayin "i have a job and a wife and and and" like no one else who plays XIV does too) and as soon as your capped on your jobs... there's nothing to do. This game has also been out longer than FFXI was when they added their stuff, wether it was because they started with a better team, clearer vision, freer reign over content I can't say.

Is XIV goin in a better direction? mostly, ya. How long has it been out... how much have they added as far as stuff to do?... "They had to fix so much!" True, but its a poor excuse in itself. I didn't miss your point, but I think you were/are missing the bigger one. People do try to be patient, but there are limits to how long people can wait and limits to how long they can be expected to wait. Each update now fixes more things which is great... but content that dies off again so quickly miiiiiight not be the right kind to release. I'll keep waiting, as this is just filler content. Waiting and Hoping, but expecting very little.

[Platinumstorm]

Alright this thread has gotten more attention than I expected.

FFXI, for me, was endless time requirements that made less than 5% of my game time enjoyable. I would spend hours making or waiting for groups, stand in one spot for hours leveling up, then go back and do it all over again in the exact same spots with the exact same frustrations. The payout in FFXI was never good enough, and I never felt like I was having an adventure. FFXIV may be in worse shape than FFXI right now, but I can easily say I've had more enjoyment and a larger sense of adventure in this than in FFXI.

Players won't tolerate what FFXI had anymore. It's not about being hardcore or casual, it's about getting enjoyment out of the game, experiencing content, and doing awesome things all of the time. The only character building in wasting time is masochistic idiocy.

FFXIV 2.0 absolutely must be designed for the players who aren't playing the game. If not, this game will die. 1-49 is currently more important than any of us who have 50s.

FFXI is not going to happen again.

[Xoo]

I remember FFXI release, the Japanese one. There was no AH back at the beginning, and you couldn't see pt members on the map. Good thing there is patches.. ::hint hint::

Andrien, I just want to say your 'signature' compels me to totally neglect what is said in each of your posts, and makes it very hard to read the next post without scrolling back up for another peek. Hey, at least my priorities are straight.

[XStruckX]

You know I was thinking this the other night...

Maybe just maybe the reason everyone wants FFXI or compares FFXIV to FFXI is because FFXI might have been their first major mmorpg that they spent more than just a couple months on. Their first online mmo experience is kinda like your first partner. We were young, she taught me things, blah blah blah. So now you've grown a little and maybe grown up entirely still hoping to get that in which you got from FFXI and realize its just not there anymore. ; ;

FFXIV will never bring you the excitement FFXI brought you since your first is always the most memorable. Now not to say that FFXIV will never bring you the fun and happiness that FFXI did but you can't hold it to the same standards or expect the same feeling when you got your first 75 job or in my case finished COP.

FFXIV is fine now, its becoming a real solid game with a few things to iron out in 2.0. I played Guild Wars II beta for 8 hours and uninstalled. MMORPGS can be exhausting and time consuming. I guess I'm getting older and getting over it. Maybe just maybe some of you guys are feeling the same and don't realize that it isn't the game, it's us lol.

The new generation of MMORPGS players like the WOW clones and the innovated crap thats coming out with crazy achievement systems, in game micro transactions and 1000 mounts with 50 dungeons that each has their own token system and a content finder so you never have to wait long. Us FFXI players enjoyed the 4 hour LFP sessions on DRG, we went soloing, farmed NMs, talked with LS, crafted, ran back and forth from the AH to the MH in Whitegate for no reason. When we got DRG to 75 we felt like we just got the world's biggest chocolate chip cookie.

New gen players wanna do abyssea and get a full set of relics...old school we didnt care if we only had 2 jobs at 75 we did our best at them. New gen want a full set of Moogle/Ifrit weapons before patch comes out. Old school we would never imagine a full set of ANYTHING!! Full lolGod set could take months and full Homam/Nashira yeah ok... Need I mention Salvage?

This post has gone on long enough, I'll continue to play FFXIV cuz I'm a geek FF fanboy and I'm sure in the next couple of months or even years XIV will evolve into something amazing. I'll tell you one thing though if 2.0 fails I'm done with MMORPGS for good.

Unless FFXVIII comes out lawl...

[Razorboi82]

Andrien, I just want to say your 'signature' compels me to totally neglect what is said in each of your posts, and makes it very hard to read the next post without scrolling back up for another peek. Hey, at least my priorities are straight.

I just came on here to say GOODBYE!!!~ then i saw this... you ignore him because he likes girls? oO;. Its not his fault the girl wants to show off her goods with the world... I'm just sayin. I'm gay so don't even think about coming back with some "typical guy" remark. Anywho! Goodbye XOO! we will miss you!! write a blog on your old adventures in FFXI. d(^.~)b

[Enfarious]

The person who you were posting in response to was posting about people capping everything and how it tied into nothing to do comments. FFXIV has nothing to do despite everything they've added, yes they killed their team that started it, but that still doesn't justify its current state.

People who capped to 50 before the Zilart/adds that came after the initial release were serious gamers devoting serious time to a new game.... in FFXIV everyone caps everything in a month or two, with minimal time investment (save for the people who come on here sayin "i have a job and a wife and and and" like no one else who plays XIV does too) and as soon as your capped on your jobs... there's nothing to do. This game has also been out longer than FFXI was when they added their stuff, wether it was because they started with a better team, clearer vision, freer reign over content I can't say.

Is XIV goin in a better direction? mostly, ya. How long has it been out... how much have they added as far as stuff to do?... "They had to fix so much!" True, but its a poor excuse in itself. I didn't miss your point, but I think you were/are missing the bigger one. People do try to be patient, but there are limits to how long people can wait and limits to how long they can be expected to wait. Each update now fixes more things which is great... but content that dies off again so quickly miiiiiight not be the right kind to release. I'll keep waiting, as this is just filler content. Waiting and Hoping, but expecting very little.

I was talking about the fact that FFXI(and every other MMO) wasn't released w/ all it's content, was that not clear? Was the explanation about 2 years in japan before NA release and some time after that EU was released, we got a ton of non-original content. What's confusing?
As to the time it has taken, to offer up a real life example:
Hire a contractor to do build an addition onto your home, after 3 months not only is it not complete, it's nowhere near what you were after, you offered more than 1 chance for contractor A to fix it. Fired. Contractor B comes in sadly there's no way your going to suddenly get things done that day cause you've a new contractor/team. He's gotta first "fix" everything that was wrong to begin w/, a huge time sink, then begin finishing the work. All told twice the time to get to the same place because of the original bad work. It's the same as what happened here.

They have alot to fix, it's not an excuse, just a simple fact, if 1/2 of the dev team is working on fixes, which we as players are all screaming for if you haven't noticed, then the math works out to ummm... I think w/ 1/2 a team working on fixes, and 1/2 on new content = everything should get done twice as fast right? Get real, if the people before you ruin it, you have to undo what they did first, it's going to take longer, you can't help that, and it's not your fault they f'd up.

This has not been out for 2 years. I returned and started this char ~1 month ago, I don't have every job capped, nor have I done every single quest. I level like I actually want to play for awhile, and I don't play 80hrs a week. What do you consider minimal, I get ~2hrs on days I work (if I get on at all), and maybe 6 on days off, if by minimial you mean 6~8hrs M~F and 12~16 hrs S~S then well that's not minimal.

[Enfarious]

XStruckX that's by far and away the single most accurate, close to the mark comparison I have ever seen. Your absolutely right, me and a friend that started in WoW(and constantly returns to it even tho he has 0 attention span for MMOs). FFXI was the first I played and all the ones since have left me feeling ... less than satisfied, but a new FF had the potential to be "the first ones sister", new, exciting, fresh, and yet somehow strangely familiar.

Instant gratification is nice but it'll never offer the same sense of satisfaction as having to actually "work" for something.

It's sad that kids these days have worse attention spans and less desire to really "work" for a thing than my generation, and mine got alot of "Your such a slacker" talk when we were kids. But all of what ya said is spot on, the newest and probably largest group of players are primarily interested in "I want it now" gaming.