Fighting Desperately...

[Xoo]

Of course there is mid-game content. What I'm complaining about is the quality of that content. By this point, leveling up seems a simple formality - a bothersome obstacle that to some, apparently is inessential. This is exactly the notion that bothers me most. RPG games are what they are due to gradual character growth, and not boss battles. They do play a role, but do not define the genre.

[Zelkelion]

Of course there is mid-game content. What I'm complaining about is the quality of that content. By this point, leveling up seems a simple formality - a bothersome obstacle that to some, apparently is inessential. This is exactly the notion that bothers me most. RPG games are what they are do to gradual character growth, and not boss battles. They do play a role, but do not define the genre.

When people express a need to level up, my response is: "why?". In most games it's because you're doing other things and experiencing quests and storylines and basically just level up as you go. Even in quests that are "go here, kill that, fetch this", they're not nearly as bland and unappealing as the damned leves. In this game I feel no inspiration to level... the world just isn't interesting enough. Hell, there are only THREE cities! And I've seen them all!

[Enfarious]

When people express a need to level up, my response is: "why?". In most games it's because you're doing other things and experiencing quests and storylines and basically just level up as you go. Even in quests that are "go here, kill that, fetch this", they're not nearly as bland and unappealing as the damned leves. In this game I feel no inspiration to level... the world just isn't interesting enough. Hell, there are only THREE cities! And I've seen them all!

I couldn't agree more, and while typically I'd say the grind is also when people can/should learn to play and master each job they do level in this mastery is just a matter of pressing buttons in time.

The only content they've provided up to this point is the "EG" the story content is a very nice story but short, not team-centric, not to say you should have to have a pt for it, and doesn't really require much "getting around". I hate to say in FFXI cause it really does get over used as an example and I'm certainly one to use it when/where I can. But in FFXI we at least had to travel the world, spend some time in each zone, and there were multiple places where a pt was an option, though not always needed. There were reasons to grind and reasons to stop grinding and do other things. Hell you don't even need to make money in this just do a few R40 leves @5stars and your good.

[JakeRoon]

By this point, leveling up seems a simple formality - a bothersome obstacle that to some, apparently is inessential. This is exactly the notion that bothers me most. RPG games are what they are due to gradual character growth, .

I can see that you love to level up, I know many many Korean grind hell games you would love (lineage 2 comes right to mind damn what a grind)

But....what you must grasp is that "Leveling up through a massive grind" is NOT (((UTTERRRLLLLY NOT-WATCH MY CAPS-NOT) what must define the genre any longer....

It just plain old school BS that is long since ded, dee eee dee, ded.....

Modern gamers (some old some young) are just not going to stand for it anymore. It's slow and boring.

You might as well be here spouting off about how the world so go back to horse and buggy vs cars.

It's over Xoo, the jury is out, boring grinds are on death row.

Course nothing is stopping you from visiting them there. But please stop compagianing to release that public terror back on the streets.

/harp-off

What we are saying is there are 34720340234802830482093840983204 more fun ways to make a game fun, challenged, and engaging without having "level ups"

Look at the ratchet and clank series or the Jax and Daxter series or the Assasin's creed Franchise. All these games have rpg elements and a well paced character development from weaker to very powerfull.

Closer to our own genere you can look at the record breaking Guild Wars, and guild wars 2 (which looks awesome btw I hope you role-play it with us ^^) which are essentially "level-less". They tout "If you love mmos you'll want to check out our game, if you HATE mmos you'll REALLY want to check out our game."

And they are right....

In the modern gamers perspective more of the game should be FUN with less boredom. A game should be a compleation of 15000 small rewards that are challenging yes, but very accomplish-able in a play session of a couple hours each.

A game shoud not just consist of a few fun parts that you get to do very occasionally after a long grind of boredom. We don't think that's okay.... I won't stand for it in fact.

I want to challenge my game developers to THINK and inovate, and to be creative and really apply all their artistry and talent to a game.

I think they deserve that from us, NO i think this medium NEEDS that from us as gamers.

Join the revolution Xoo, fight for better games, fun games, memorable game moments every time you log in.

POWER TO THE GAMERSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!

[Enfarious]

I can see that you love to level up, I know many many Korean grind hell games you would love
...
Modern gamers (some old some young) are just not going to stand for it anymore. It's slow and boring.
...
What we are saying is there are 34720340234802830482093840983204 more fun ways to make a game fun, challenged, and engaging without having "level ups"

Look at the ratchet and clank series or the Jax and Daxter series or the Assasin's creed Franchise. All these games have rpg elements and a well paced character development from weaker to very powerfull.

Closer to our own genere you can look at the record breaking Guild Wars, and guild wars 2 (which looks awesome btw I hope you role-play it with us ^^) which are essentially "level-less". They tout "If you love mmos you'll want to check out our game, if you HATE mmos you'll REALLY want to check out our game."
...
A game shoud not just consist of a few fun parts that you get to do very occasionally after a long grind of boredom. We don't think that's okay.... I won't stand for it in fact.

I want to challenge my game developers to THINK and inovate, and to be creative and really apply all their artistry and talent to a game.

The majority of MMOs new and old, and all RPGs include grinding, pace of grind is the part that needs tweaking, 1~50 in a few days(if you have the time/day) is fail. Grinding can and should be both fun(social interaction, it's an MMO after all), and a good time for learning your jobs mechanics. 6 months to 50 is not good 6hrs to 50 is not better.
A game with "RPG elements" does not an RPG make.
Don't try to redefine the genre that's like renaming pen to qre, it's not gonna work, RPGs are RPGs.
Guild Wars was one of a kind, I didn't care for it, but there's alot of things I don't care for. It's not to say it was bad, but to say let it remain unique.

Your absolutely right, we should be able to do fun things often, but if you get to start doing what you want from day one, it kind of loses out on the "I earned this" that actually makes it enjoyable. Kind of like everyone just getting an Ifrit Blade cause you "made a character".

Growth is growth because... well, it takes time. Earning things, working for things, showing off what you earned. Yep that's the intro to elitism but you can't call it wrong.

[Xoo]

Join the revolution Xoo, fight for better games, fun games, memorable game moments every time you log in./

I don't think so.

Grinds have been an integral party of RPG's since the genre began. If he had one, Sakaguchi would have just rolled over in his grave. My question for all of you people, (concerning your GW2 quote), if you hate it so much, well what in Christ's name are you trying to prove by voluntarily, repeatedly exposing yourself to something you don't like? There is a game for us, and there is a game for you. I choose RPG's because I, for one, happen to like them... everything about them.

If I were to listen to you about how times are a-changing, can you imagine what you'd be telling the generation of gamers down the road? I imagine it to be something to the effect of, "Back in my day, we didn't have a choice of playing the game or not. All you knuckleheads have to do is decide to start the game at the beginning or the end! I can't imagine why you even bought or play the game at all"!

[Valmonte]

I can see that you love to level up, I know many many Korean grind hell games you would love (lineage 2 comes right to mind damn what a grind)

But....what you must grasp is that "Leveling up through a massive grind" is NOT (((UTTERRRLLLLY NOT-WATCH MY CAPS-NOT) what must define the genre any longer....

It just plain old school BS that is long since ded, dee eee dee, ded.....

Modern gamers (some old some young) are just not going to stand for it anymore. It's slow and boring.

You might as well be here spouting off about how the world so go back to horse and buggy vs cars.

It's over Xoo, the jury is out, boring grinds are on death row.

Course nothing is stopping you from visiting them there. But please stop compagianing to release that public terror back on the streets.

/harp-off

What we are saying is there are 34720340234802830482093840983204 more fun ways to make a game fun, challenged, and engaging without having "level ups"

Look at the ratchet and clank series or the Jax and Daxter series or the Assasin's creed Franchise. All these games have rpg elements and a well paced character development from weaker to very powerfull.

Closer to our own genere you can look at the record breaking Guild Wars, and guild wars 2 (which looks awesome btw I hope you role-play it with us ^^) which are essentially "level-less". They tout "If you love mmos you'll want to check out our game, if you HATE mmos you'll REALLY want to check out our game."

And they are right....

In the modern gamers perspective more of the game should be FUN with less boredom. A game should be a compleation of 15000 small rewards that are challenging yes, but very accomplish-able in a play session of a couple hours each.

A game shoud not just consist of a few fun parts that you get to do very occasionally after a long grind of boredom. We don't think that's okay.... I won't stand for it in fact.

I want to challenge my game developers to THINK and inovate, and to be creative and really apply all their artistry and talent to a game.

I think they deserve that from us, NO i think this medium NEEDS that from us as gamers.

Join the revolution Xoo, fight for better games, fun games, memorable game moments every time you log in.

POWER TO THE GAMERSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!

i don't know if your just trolling or just stupid, so i'm just going to assume your a braincell short of a vegetable.

1.) all the games you mentioned are Action/Adventure Games.

2.) Leveling up has and always will Define the RPG Genre in some form or another. wither it be leveling up you gear, leveling up your power/ability's, or the old time tested leveling up your Class/Character.

this extreme sometimes detested Leveling scheme is the only thing keeping the RPG genre alive. remove this one feature and your left with an Action/Adventure game nothing more and nothing less.