Fighting Desperately...

[Xoo]

Just because you don't like the way some people play the game, doesn't mean it's the way that EVERYONE should play the game. It's their journey, and they can take whatever path they Goddam please.

You really think so? Perhaps you weren't the person with multiple Linkshells, 165 people on their Friend List, a working knowledge of the party search function, no reservations about shouting for an hour on the streets of Ul'dah for some party members to go out and grind with. For 3 days I did this, all in vain, and for the simple fact that everyone, I kid you not, everyone that could have otherwise went with me was either in Mun-Tuy or Nanawa, sitting AFK/asleep while a Lv50 THM or CON played their game for them.

So you tell me where the choice is in that?

[Crysten]

You really think so? Perhaps you weren't the person with multiple Linkshells, 165 people on their Friend List, a working knowledge of the party search function, no reservations about shouting for an hour on the streets of Ul'dah for some party members to go out and grind with. For 3 days I did this, all in vain, and for the simple fact that everyone, I kid you not, everyone that could have otherwise went with me was either in Mun-Tuy or Nanawa, sitting AFK/asleep while a Lv50 THM or CON played their game for them.

So you tell me where the choice is in that?

You're parading your own experience as "the" experience. I don't remember having any trouble getting to 50 through a mix of parties (when they were still sparse on Mysidia) and solo grinding through leves. I even got a few PL parties to level my subs up. I think that's plenty of choice from my end and the majority of that choice came from my current linkshell or my RL friends.

If you had several linkshells and 150 people on your friends list and couldn't find a bloody party, I'd look a little closer to home for the core problem to the particular situation you found yourself in...

You can tell people this all day but they're not going to stop until they cause MMOs to go out of existence. I've seen it in other types of media, things are made to keep you on the hook and take a while, then something comes along that makes that experience instantly gratifying. Then everybody tries to copy, quality of the whole genre goes down and everybody gets sick of it then BAM the whole genre is dead.

You do know the entire design philosophy of MMOs is to keep people playing for as long as possible, right? You know, for example, Skinner Box techniques? Why on Earth would any sane MMO developer make an instantly gratifying experience when the entire point is to design content that can be completed slower than it can be developed?

WoW's flaws or positives aside, it changed the market trend into something that has widespread appeal. The age of most MMO gamers is increasing as time goes on and these people just don't have the time to dedicate to a hardcore MMO anymore. I've done all the crap in XI; I have an Aegis. I levelled three of my jobs pre-Aht Urhgan the "old school" way in Bibiki Bay. I've lived in the Aery for days.

And you know what, you can go piss right off if you want to feed me any of that garbage again. I'm perfectly happy in an environment where I can spend an hour or two in game and feel like I've accomplished something. That's the future of the genre, and if you don't like it, the door is right there and there's a bus to XI or EQ waiting right outside.

Fact of the matter is, those who say mid-game play should take a backseat to end-game play are only out there for the thrill of victory over others and apparently care little about the journey and adventure it takes to get there. They make games such as Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter for these kind of people. They don't belong in RPG's at all in the first place.

I really don't understand the connection between "end-game" and "the thrill of victory" and I'd actually like you to elaborate here. There's no competition in this game (and XI did the worst job of creating competition in the form of HNM, but that's another story) and there is mid-game content for those who wish to persue it. Once again, who are you to say what content a player may or may not enjoy/partake in? If I don't want to do Toto-rak or Chocobo escorts, that's not even your problem.

Exactly this sentiment that I believe is going to become a reality that resulted in my OP. Specifically, the first paragraph. Anyone who has any appreciation for anything in life knows that the journey is not just a means to an end. It is the defining characteristic of those ends.

Yet you're heavily implying that anyone who takes the journey a certain way deserves a certain kind of belittlement compared to someone who doesn't.

[Xoo]

You're parading your own experience as "the" experience. I don't remember having any trouble getting to 50 through a mix of parties (when they were still sparse on Mysidia) and solo grinding through leves. I even got a few PL parties to level my subs up. I think that's plenty of choice from my end and the majority of that choice came from my current linkshell or my RL friends.

If you had several linkshells and 150 people on your friends list and couldn't find a bloody party, I'd look a little closer to home for the core problem to the particular situation you found yourself in...

You do know the entire design philosophy of MMOs is to keep people playing for as long as possible, right? You know, for example, Skinner Box techniques? Why on Earth would any sane MMO developer make an instantly gratifying experience when the entire point is to design content that can be completed slower than it can be developed?

WoW's flaws or positives aside, it changed the market trend into something that has widespread appeal. The age of most MMO gamers is increasing as time goes on and these people just don't have the time to dedicate to a hardcore MMO anymore. I've done all the crap in XI; I have an Aegis. I levelled three of my jobs pre-Aht Urhgan the "old school" way in Bibiki Bay. I've lived in the Aery for days.

And you know what, you can go piss right off if you want to feed me any of that garbage again. I'm perfectly happy in an environment where I can spend an hour or two in game and feel like I've accomplished something. That's the future of the genre, and if you don't like it, the door is right there and there's a bus to XI or EQ waiting right outside.

I really don't understand the connection between "end-game" and "the thrill of victory" and I'd actually like you to elaborate here. There's no competition in this game (and XI did the worst job of creating competition in the form of HNM, but that's another story) and there is mid-game content for those who wish to persue it. Once again, who are you to say what content a player may or may not enjoy/partake in? If I don't want to do Toto-rak or Chocobo escorts, that's not even your problem.

Yet you're heavily implying that anyone who takes the journey a certain way deserves a certain kind of belittlement compared to someone who doesn't.

I am not. I am speaking for those who have shared the same frustrating experience I have. Are you not guilty of exactly the same? - professing your experience as an all-encompassing gospel?

What are you getting at, exactly? Stop being cryptic.

And do you realize how much the promotion, proficiency and abuse of Powerleveling totally negates this design philosophy? As well, the sheer magnitude of EXP that stoods to be gained in the Strongholds at Lv40-50?

Widespread appeal = more money, period. The fact that people that once played XI have grown is a moot point. Generations follow one another.

Nobody fed it to you. You fed yourself.

If the only thing people care about is killing NM's, running Dungeons and uber loot, then let's just start the game at Lv50. Screw the rest.

[Crysten]

I am not. I am speaking for those who have shared the same frustrating experience I have. Are you not guilty of exactly the same? - professing your experience as an all-encompassing gospel?

If you wish to point out exactly where I'm saying my opinion is "the" opinion, go right ahead. I'm saying my experience was different to yours, therefore to generalize and put everyone into the same basket is a flawed basis for an argument.

Just because I portray a very different experience to yourself, it does not make my opinion any less valid.

And do you realize how much the promotion, proficiency and abuse of Powerleveling totally negates this design philosophy? As well, the sheer magnitude of EXP that stoods to be gained in the Strongholds at Lv40-50?

Anytime you wish to give me a reasonable counter argument to illustrate how this incapacitates your/anyone's ability to solo or party play your way to 50 if they so wish, as well as enter raids like Toto-rak during midgame, by all means let me know.

If shouts on Gungnir over the last week have been any indication, parties are formed all the time now.

Widespread appeal = more money, period. The fact that people that once played XI have grown is a moot point. Generations follow one another.

And this is a bad point because...?

SE does not give a crap about what you want. They give a crap about what makes them money, and WoW is currently "the way to make money." Do you follow the model with the currently stagnating game with around <300k subscribers or do you follow the model with the currently stagnating game with over 9 million subscribers?

If you say the former, you need to rethink what businesses actually do.

Nobody fed it to you. You fed yourself.

Right back at you concerning this game.

If the only thing people care about is killing NM's, running Dungeons and uber loot, then let's just start the game at Lv50. Screw the rest.

But...there is content for people on the way to 50 if people wish to do it.

Some people want to reach endgame in the shortest amount of time possible.

Some people wish to smell the roses, experience everything the game has to offer and take it slow.

This game actually strikes a pretty nice balance here at the moment.

Just because you seemingly have a problem with the former should not give you the right to impose the latter,

People have different opinions and wish to play the game their own way. What part of this do you not comprehend?

[Xoo]

If you wish to point out exactly where I'm saying my opinion is "the" opinion, go right ahead. I'm saying my experience was different to yours, therefore to generalize and put everyone into the same basket is a flawed basis for an argument.

Just because I portray a very different experience to yourself, it does not make my opinion any less valid.



Anytime you wish to give me a reasonable counter argument to illustrate how this incapacitates your/anyone's ability to solo or party play your way to 50 if they so wish, as well as enter raids like Toto-rak during midgame, by all means let me know.

If shouts on Gungnir over the last week have been any indication, parties are formed all the time now.



And this is a bad point because...?

SE does not give a crap about what you want. They give a crap about what makes them money, and WoW is currently "the way to make money." Do you follow the model with the currently stagnating game with around <300k subscribers or do you follow the model with the currently stagnating game with over 9 million subscribers?

If you say the former, you need to rethink what businesses actually do.



Right back at you concerning this game.



But...there is content for people on the way to 50 if people wish to do it.

Some people want to reach endgame in the shortest amount of time possible.

Some people wish to smell the roses, experience everything the game has to offer and take it slow.

This game actually strikes a pretty nice balance here at the moment.

Just because you seemingly have a problem with the former should not give you the right to impose the latter,

People have different opinions and wish to play the game their own way. What part of this do you not comprehend?

You sure are talking like I need to stfu and gtfo with the things I've said because you've had no trouble in regard to the things I've mentioned. What I'm saying is, is the more you grease the rail from the beginning of the game through Lv50, the more endgame you're going to need to come up with - and fast. My OP stated, "I suppose it just makes better sense to milk the cow and market the milk". R.J. Reynolds & Co. makes money off marketing cigarettes to healthy human beings.

[Valmonte]

SE does not give a crap about what you want. They give a crap about what makes them money, and WoW is currently "the way to make money." Do you follow the model with the currently stagnating game with around <300k subscribers or do you follow the model with the currently stagnating game with over 9 million subscribers?

If you say the former, you need to rethink what businesses actually do.

this is why this game is already slated for death, how many successful WoW clones have you seen that have succeeded in the long run....ill give you a hint, its the #0.

FFWoW will be no exception, the wow fans will come bitch for 2 years about how hard its is to get there goobue mount. Then once they've derailed the game dissecting it piece by piece and changing its development processes they will do what all WoW fans do GO back to wow as its will remain the only game that actually wipes your ass for you.

[Andrien]

this is why this game is already slated for death, how many successful WoW clones have you seen that have succeeded in the long run....ill give you a hint, its the #0.

FFWoW will be no exception, the wow fans will come bitch for 2 years about how hard its is to get there goobue mount. Then once they've derailed the game dissecting it piece by piece and changing its development processes they will do what all WoW fans do GO back to wow as its will remain the only game that actually wipes your ass for you.

I don't comment on speculations but, Goobue mount is available for a limited time only because no one will be able to get it after 2.0

[Valmonte]

I don't comment on speculations but, Goobue mount is available for a limited time only because no one will be able to get it after 2.0

seems you didn't get the indirect sarcasm, 80% of WoW players are just too stupid to talk/interact with anything at all. they would rather the goobue go strait into you mountables inventory than actually quest for it, yes they're that Stupid/lazy or god help us a combination of both.

[Crysten]

You sure are talking like I need to stfu and gtfo with the things I've said because you've had no trouble in regard to the things I've mentioned. What I'm saying is, is the more you grease the rail from the beginning of the game through Lv50, the more endgame you're going to need to come up with - and fast. My OP stated, "I suppose it just makes better sense to milk the cow and market the milk". R.J. Reynolds & Co. makes money off marketing cigarettes to healthy human beings.

I might be coming off as direct sure, but don't use my tone as a means to belittle my argument.

You have a fair concern in terms of greasing the rails but I've already made my point several times in the last few posts. What will happen in 2.0 is pure conjecture on anyone's part but the game in it's current state offers a clear choice of content and a fair ol' grind from 1-50 at the moment. If someone wants to skip that grind, they can do so and get into XIV's endgame pretty quickly should they have the resources to do so. It's not like every Joe Schmuck with a linkshell has immediate access to PL parties.

Will it all change come 2.0? Maybe, maybe not. Either way, the game in it's current form isn't going to change anytime soon. There's no point.

this is why this game is already slated for death, how many successful WoW clones have you seen that have succeeded in the long run....ill give you a hint, its the #0.

FFWoW will be no exception, the wow fans will come bitch for 2 years about how hard its is to get there goobue mount. Then once they've derailed the game dissecting it piece by piece and changing its development processes they will do what all WoW fans do GO back to wow as its will remain the only game that actually wipes your ass for you.

Hey Ivan! :O

A fair point, though SWTOR currently has about 1.7 million subscribers right now. Whether that'll change in the long run remains to be seen but I think that has gotten where it is largely due to the power of brand recognition. Final Fantasy has that kind of power in the name department, especially in Japan.

XIV won't beat WoW, I'm pretty certain of that, but I reckon with enough love the game could at least gain a sizable subscriber base. XIV's biggest hurdle is getting over all the negative stigma people already have, really.

[TheVedis]

Hey Ivan! :O

A fair point, though SWTOR currently has about 1.7 million subscribers right now. Whether that'll change in the long run remains to be seen but I think that has gotten where it is largely due to the power of brand recognition. Final Fantasy has that kind of power in the name department, especially in Japan.

XIV won't beat WoW, I'm pretty certain of that, but I reckon with enough love the game could at least gain a sizable subscriber base. XIV's biggest hurdle is getting over all the negative stigma people already have, really.

star wars may have subscribers right now, but heres the thing

its still a relatively new game, and itl sell based on the name alone

tons of people i know who played it have already quit, and im sure tons more will be on their way out shortly, after about a year, do you really think itl still have as many people? probly not, itl have a fraction of that, just as every other wow clone has ended up having after people wake up and realize what they are playing