Fighting Desperately...

[Enfarious]

Fun fact for you guys when FFXI hit in japan lvl cap was only 50 and the only thing to do was lvl and you know what? A lot of ppl had the first 6 (edit cause I know that's what you meant) jobs to 50 before they expanded the game >.>.

It's nice to see someone else realizes that FFXI didn't start w/ everything already in place.

Most US and even more so EU players didn't see the game before CoP was released, which is also a factor in the "alot to do" arguments. When the game was released to the world at large the first expansion was already out, and CoP was all but hitting shelves.

[Xoo]

It's nice to see someone else realizes that FFXI didn't start w/ everything already in place.

Most US and even more so EU players didn't see the game before CoP was released, which is also a factor in the "alot to do" arguments. When the game was released to the world at large the first expansion was already out, and CoP was all but hitting shelves.

This just begs the question, "If you're professionals, why release an unfinished product (again) when you know you're just going to put hundreds of thousands of nails in the game's coffin resulting in it being buried alive, prematurely?"

[Enfarious]

This just begs the question, "If you're professionals, why release an unfinished product (again) when you know you're just going to put hundreds of thousands of nails in the game's coffin resulting in it being buried alive, prematurely?"

You misunderstand my meaning. In FFXI the game wasn't "broken", what I mean by "didn't start with everything already in place" is: it didn't have 10 years worth of expansion content included, no MMO to date has all the content included from day one. Find one that didn't have expansions, level cap increases, and the like.

FFXIV was released in a beta(barely) quality state, it was a train wreck and the persons responsible have been replaced, or does noone remember that part.

That does not mean that it's content for the next 10 years worth of expansions should have been present at release date though.

[Peptaru]

You misunderstand my meaning. In FFXI the game wasn't "broken", what I mean by "didn't start with everything already in place" is: it didn't have 10 years worth of expansion content included, no MMO to date has all the content included from day one. Find one that didn't have expansions, level cap increases, and the like.

FFXIV was released in a beta(barely) quality state, it was a train wreck and the persons responsible have been replaced, or does noone remember that part.

That does not mean that it's content for the next 10 years worth of expansions should have been present at release date though.

FFXI was already great before 10 years had passed. IMO that's an awful arguement. How long was it out before the release of Zilart? From the release of Zilart it was fantastic until a certain expansion made it as easy as XIV, no?

[Enfarious]

FFXI was already great before 10 years had passed. IMO that's an awful arguement. How long was it out before the release of Zilart? >>>Was released in the states w/ this expansion after ~2years of "growth" in Japan <<< From the release of Zilart it was fantastic until a certain expansion made it as easy as XIV, no?

Not sure how this is flying over peoples heads.

You misunderstand my meaning. In FFXI the game wasn't "broken"
Clarification: FFXI was good at release FFXIV was not, broken UI broken Combat ... the list is f'in long.;

, what I mean by "didn't start with everything already in place" is: it didn't have 10 years worth of expansion content included, no MMO to date has all the content included from day one. Find one that didn't have expansions, level cap increases, and the like.
Clarification: FFXI as well as FFXIV and all other MMOs have content added over time, how was that not clear?

FFXIV was released in a beta(barely) quality state, it was a train wreck and the persons responsible have been replaced, or does noone remember that part.
Clarification: see clarification 1;

That does not mean that it's content for the next 10 years worth of expansions should have been present at release date though.
Clarification: Expansions like in all others should be added as time passes.

As for time frame that things went downhill, well anyone playing when abyssea was released can tell you when it went to hell. When a 99pld asks what "Provoke" is for and then says should I "cure" myself or "do I need to use a shield, I'd rather use a g.sword" ...

[Peptaru]

The person who you were posting in response to was posting about people capping everything and how it tied into nothing to do comments. FFXIV has nothing to do despite everything they've added, yes they killed their team that started it, but that still doesn't justify its current state.

People who capped to 50 before the Zilart/adds that came after the initial release were serious gamers devoting serious time to a new game.... in FFXIV everyone caps everything in a month or two, with minimal time investment (save for the people who come on here sayin "i have a job and a wife and and and" like no one else who plays XIV does too) and as soon as your capped on your jobs... there's nothing to do. This game has also been out longer than FFXI was when they added their stuff, wether it was because they started with a better team, clearer vision, freer reign over content I can't say.

Is XIV goin in a better direction? mostly, ya. How long has it been out... how much have they added as far as stuff to do?... "They had to fix so much!" True, but its a poor excuse in itself. I didn't miss your point, but I think you were/are missing the bigger one. People do try to be patient, but there are limits to how long people can wait and limits to how long they can be expected to wait. Each update now fixes more things which is great... but content that dies off again so quickly miiiiiight not be the right kind to release. I'll keep waiting, as this is just filler content. Waiting and Hoping, but expecting very little.

[Enfarious]

The person who you were posting in response to was posting about people capping everything and how it tied into nothing to do comments. FFXIV has nothing to do despite everything they've added, yes they killed their team that started it, but that still doesn't justify its current state.

People who capped to 50 before the Zilart/adds that came after the initial release were serious gamers devoting serious time to a new game.... in FFXIV everyone caps everything in a month or two, with minimal time investment (save for the people who come on here sayin "i have a job and a wife and and and" like no one else who plays XIV does too) and as soon as your capped on your jobs... there's nothing to do. This game has also been out longer than FFXI was when they added their stuff, wether it was because they started with a better team, clearer vision, freer reign over content I can't say.

Is XIV goin in a better direction? mostly, ya. How long has it been out... how much have they added as far as stuff to do?... "They had to fix so much!" True, but its a poor excuse in itself. I didn't miss your point, but I think you were/are missing the bigger one. People do try to be patient, but there are limits to how long people can wait and limits to how long they can be expected to wait. Each update now fixes more things which is great... but content that dies off again so quickly miiiiiight not be the right kind to release. I'll keep waiting, as this is just filler content. Waiting and Hoping, but expecting very little.

I was talking about the fact that FFXI(and every other MMO) wasn't released w/ all it's content, was that not clear? Was the explanation about 2 years in japan before NA release and some time after that EU was released, we got a ton of non-original content. What's confusing?
As to the time it has taken, to offer up a real life example:
Hire a contractor to do build an addition onto your home, after 3 months not only is it not complete, it's nowhere near what you were after, you offered more than 1 chance for contractor A to fix it. Fired. Contractor B comes in sadly there's no way your going to suddenly get things done that day cause you've a new contractor/team. He's gotta first "fix" everything that was wrong to begin w/, a huge time sink, then begin finishing the work. All told twice the time to get to the same place because of the original bad work. It's the same as what happened here.

They have alot to fix, it's not an excuse, just a simple fact, if 1/2 of the dev team is working on fixes, which we as players are all screaming for if you haven't noticed, then the math works out to ummm... I think w/ 1/2 a team working on fixes, and 1/2 on new content = everything should get done twice as fast right? Get real, if the people before you ruin it, you have to undo what they did first, it's going to take longer, you can't help that, and it's not your fault they f'd up.

This has not been out for 2 years. I returned and started this char ~1 month ago, I don't have every job capped, nor have I done every single quest. I level like I actually want to play for awhile, and I don't play 80hrs a week. What do you consider minimal, I get ~2hrs on days I work (if I get on at all), and maybe 6 on days off, if by minimial you mean 6~8hrs M~F and 12~16 hrs S~S then well that's not minimal.