Fighting Desperately...

[Zaaku]

I wonder how SE is going to handle all this information they are being fed?

~FFXI was hard as hell and new players were hard to come by but those who did integrate played obsessively and subscribed for years
~Since the difficulty was turned to 11 they already had artifical time sinks just built into the core EXP system meaning more time to make and perfect their endgame content and expansions. Also it gave them great leeway in their development of content. Except for a single instance nothing they did was ever brutal enough to get an outcry from the players (Rot in hell AV)
~They tried a progressive more wider audience broaching EXP system in FFXIV and it died. It died screaming on fire and alone.
~To make it more casual friendly they removed much of what limited FFXI's leveling progression that while annoying gave the player respect for the dangers of the world. (Mobs not deaggroing, EXP loss on death, ect)

All signs point towards going back to what they know worked and had a loyal fanbase in. Yet they are not doing it. Makes me wonder if they were given some kind of number of subs they had to hit and without reaching it people are losing jobs. We already know they won't let it die. It is a FF title, they'll pay through the nose to fix it and make it a marginal success just to save the franchise reputation alone. Question is will they get greedy again and go for the Hard+Causal mode players working in harmony or submit to taking in lower subs but longer lasting fans?

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Click it!

[Tibian]

I wonder how SE is going to handle all this information they are being fed?

You mean being grossly mislead by. The current XIV forums are overpopulated with XI fanatics who, as I've said before, are completely deluded by nostalgia and cannot look past it. The people who XIV needs to reach out to are the people who left because they were so disgusted by what Tanaka and the previous XI administration thought would be so fantastic in a new MMO.

~FFXI was hard as hell and new players were hard to come by but those who did integrate played obsessively and subscribed for years

New players didn't exist until level sync. Furthermore, after level sync I was so disgusted by partying in the dunes and fighting CRABS in the same spot, it was just salt on the already profusely hemorrhagic wound that XI's terrible game mechanics had opened.

~Since the difficulty was turned to 11 they already had artifical time sinks just built into the core EXP system meaning more time to make and perfect their endgame content and expansions. Also it gave them great leeway in their development of content. Except for a single instance nothing they did was ever brutal enough to get an outcry from the players (Rot in hell AV)

I don't understand this statement. Mainly because I don't see anything that is a throwback to XI as far as aritifical time sinks except farming company seals and the horrible monotony associated with crafting (which is continually becoming less and less of a burden with exp manuals, increased exp bonus, rested exp bonus, and soon to be Hamlet defense).

~They tried a progressive more wider audience broaching EXP system in FFXIV and it died. It died screaming on fire and alone.

??????? Again, totally lost. If you're referring to the EXP system at launch, that was quite honestly the worst mechanic I've ever seen in ANY game. The system was arbitrary at best and favored classes heavily over the others. It had no logic to it.

~To make it more casual friendly they removed much of what limited FFXI's leveling progression that while annoying gave the player respect for the dangers of the world. (Mobs not deaggroing, EXP loss on death, ect)

You can still have this in a non punishing and non limiting way. The experience loss on death was stupid. It wasn't just poor oversight, it was just flat out plain stupid. If you give people something to look at, they'll explore. If you give people a means to explore, they'll explore. The better option for XIV is to open accessible things, to NOT limit, and certainly not return to XI's "limiting" ways.

All signs point towards going back to what they know worked and had a loyal fanbase in. Yet they are not doing it. Makes me wonder if they were given some kind of number of subs they had to hit and without reaching it people are losing jobs. We already know they won't let it die. It is a FF title, they'll pay through the nose to fix it and make it a marginal success just to save the franchise reputation alone. Question is will they get greedy again and go for the Hard+Causal mode players working in harmony or submit to taking in lower subs but longer lasting fans?

All signs point completely against this. As I stated above, there is nothing in XIV that even comes close to the terrible mechanics of XI except farming grand company seals and the tedium of crafting. We don't have static party camps anymore, you don't have to level jobs (thank god), classist and class restrictions on content is being removed, FATIGUE LOLOLOLOL was removed and replaced with a better system called RESTED EXP, annoying content restrictions and limitations such as the Moogle pre-reqs were altered to be more enjoyable and accessible for anyone who wants to attempt the fight. Everything points AGAINST them from ever returning to the stupidity that XI was.

Question is will they get greedy again and go for the Hard+Causal mode players working in harmony or submit to taking in lower subs but longer lasting fans?

You're saying you can't have both? If so, another reason why this post is completely confusing to me. Several MMOs that cater to both the "hardcore" and the casual have a significantly larger player base than XI ever did, even at its PRIME. If you continue to say XIV needs restrictions, limitations, time sinks, and things that aren't really "FUN," you should question the actual content of XI. Was that content actually fun, or did you just have a misguided sense of accomplishment over arduously surpassing a horrible mechanic that made you want to smash your face on a brick wall. I imagine the latter, because that is what I felt over finally getting past CoP missions. It wasn't the experience or the challenge (lol) that made me feel accomplished, it was simply the fact that knowing I wouldn't have to return to ever do that content again -- except I would, because all XI ever did was throw limitation, after limitation, after limitation on you. The content itself was rarely fun.

There is clearly room for hardcore and casual players in an MMO. Many have done it better than XI, to say otherwise is ignoring basic market principles.

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This just further reaffirms the fact you cannot let go of XI.

I rest my case.

[Peptaru]

I preach like I have no bias! oh wait... I do.
I rest my case.

You bring a special kind of hate for XI into every post you make, any points you try to make about XIV are overshadowed by your hatred of XI. You left Ifrit/Mog/DD/CC/AV out of the time sink portion of your ranting.... too bad that's all of XIV's current "end-game" content. If you wanna make arguements like this and want them to have any validity..... keep them on the QT til after 2.0 and see if things in XIV are fixed.

XIV is easier, you like easier so you defend it. I ENJOYED XI, under no sense of delusion, illusion, hallucination or anything else-sion.

[Xoo]

You bring a special kind of hate for XI into every post you make, any points you try to make about XIV are overshadowed by your hatred of XI. You left Ifrit/Mog/DD/CC/AV out of the time sink portion of your ranting.... too bad that's all of XIV's current "end-game" content. If you wanna make arguements like this and want them to have any validity..... keep them on the QT til after 2.0 and see if things in XIV are fixed.

XIV is easier, you like easier so you defend it. I ENJOYED XI, under no sense of delusion, illusion, hallucination or anything else-sion.

I get the feeling he was the Ninja in the group that couldn't afford/otherwise obtain Utsusemi, and because he wasn't invited to groups due to the fact, now bears a marked disgust for the game.

[Tibian]

You bring a special kind of hate for XI into every post you make, any points you try to make about XIV are overshadowed by your hatred of XI. You left Ifrit/Mog/DD/CC/AV out of the time sink portion of your ranting.... too bad that's all of XIV's current "end-game" content. If you wanna make arguements like this and want them to have any validity..... keep them on the QT til after 2.0 and see if things in XIV are fixed.

XIV is easier, you like easier so you defend it. I ENJOYED XI, under no sense of delusion, illusion, hallucination or anything else-sion.

Thanks, I am glad my bias and extreme distaste for XI is being shown in this thread. As I said in the past, I want the development team to see that I do not appreciate many concepts of XI at all and would prefer not to see them in XIV. However, you see posts such as the ones I comment on that say that XIV is returning to XI -- I don't want to see that so yes, clearly I'll post against it. You're just as biased if you think XIV needs more XI. I don't call you out on it because you clearly preferred XI, it is simply understood.

You're bringing trifling non-substantiating retorts because you cannot think of any logical thing to retort with. I will give you points for Ifrit/Mog/DD/CC/AV and their time sinks though. I have failed to acknowledge them in this thread, but have in others.

I enjoy that content, some more than others, and with the latest news that primal weapons will require less "turn ins" (5 Totems and 10 Charms), I can live with the fact that SE doesn't have a better loot table option for pre 2.0 content. The development team has stated they are working on better loot table optimization things for 2.0 and I am willing to accept that compromise.

XIV is easier, you like easier so you defend it. I ENJOYED XI, under no sense of delusion, illusion, hallucination or anything else-sion.

Easy is not fun. Easy is running a guildleve. Easy is being handed loot for nothing. I've said I enjoy a CHALLENGE that is FUN at the same time.

As someone stated in previous pages, challenge =/= time sinks, which is all XI really ever was.

[Peptaru]

Blahblahblah.

Where did I say XIV needs more XI? I didn't, i just want to see it come EVEN CLOSE to measuring up. If they add XI, hooray!!, if they don't add XI stuff and instead bring XIV stuff up to par? MOAR HURRAY!!! Tell me again what XI stuff I want added?

XI was a time-sink, XIV is a time-sink... but XI was a challenging time sink.... in XI you could die, did die, paid a penalty for dying.... in XIV you don't have any of that to worry about. Again, just hold off til 2.0 before you preach XIV is better. You can say its easier, but its not better.... not yet.

(edit for grammar failz, edit again for >>>)

Edit: If easier is better in anyone's mind, feel free to say better, but specify better because its easier so we on the harder is better side know where you're comin from, plzthx!

[MicahZerrshia]

As someone stated in previous pages, challenge =/= time sinks, which is all XI really ever was.

Killing Ifrit 100 times for an axe isn't a time sync?

Hmmm