Valentione's Day Items

[KalinOrthos]

Ugh, but I want the vest. SE, we look good in vests and slacks, I promise!

[Sated]

And the whole 'the set you take automatically switches to the gender your character is' is also... terrible. They just need to step away from gender-locking sets of gear completely.

Yea, the single-item rewards are really the worst version of it - an item shouldn't drastically change its appearance when the player equips it.

At least these gender-exclusive versions have the option to be more easily be completed in the future.

[Just_Jak]

Honestly I think the complaint, for me at least, is that there isn't just an option for us to choose. Not all women like dresses. I hate wearing them myself, and the dress doesn't suit my main. It'll be great for an alt of mine, but I'd like the ability to choose the men's set for my female character...and well, we were told they'd stop gender-locking/un-gender lock things. Having the first holiday of the year have two great glams that are gender locked kinda undermines that promise. Not to mention that not all women like dresses, nor all men suits. No point in arguing with each other, when I think it's honestly just easier to say that all people have different preferences. My preference for the suit is strong enough to get me on the forums at last, because women have no options like this set men are getting - the 'best man's' set isn't great at all, and there's...the GSM vest? That you need to be an 80GSM for and can only wear as that job. Men do need some better glams, but it doesn't hurt for women to be able to wear them, as well. The sets are nice, and I'm grateful for them - they're both so good looking. I do just...wish we could pick which one we want, no matter our character's gender. Because the sets are so good!

[Eloah]

Honestly I think the complaint, for me at least, is that there isn't just an option for us to choose. Not all women like dresses. I hate wearing them myself, and the dress doesn't suit my main. It'll be great for an alt of mine, but I'd like the ability to choose the men's set for my female character...and well, we were told they'd stop gender-locking/un-gender lock things. Having the first holiday of the year have two great glams that are gender locked kinda undermines that promise. Not to mention that not all women like dresses, nor all men suits. No point in arguing with each other, when I think it's honestly just easier to say that all people have different preferences. My preference for the suit is strong enough to get me on the forums at last, because women have no options like this set men are getting - the 'best man's' set isn't great at all, and there's...the GSM vest? That you need to be an 80GSM for and can only wear as that job. Men do need some better glams, but it doesn't hurt for women to be able to wear them, as well. The sets are nice, and I'm grateful for them - they're both so good looking. I do just...wish we could pick which one we want, no matter our character's gender. Because the sets are so good!

Your sentiment is warranted, everyone should be able to wear whatever they want, regardless of gender. But we do have to take into account that these items do take time to impliment. We also have to take into account that when anyone, designs outfits or uniform for each gender, the go to is usually a suit for males and a dress for females, since that is the easiest differentiation method we have. The stick figures on bathrooms could easily be reversed, but they are too engrained in our minds otherwise.

However, one thing you said is a bit counterintuitive to the current situation, though I don't think you meant it that way.

Men do need some better glams, but it doesn't hurt for women to be able to wear them, as well.

This statement is or was actually how the devs initially viewed the glamours they created. They'd make an outfit for males and think it would look good on females so unlocked it. However, they would not do the same with the sets made for females, they left those gender-locked. This is what created that divide and spiraled to a head with the Bunny Suit and Thavnairian outfits. Gender locking isn't good, but as long as an equality is maintained, one set male one female, the heart of the issue is pacified.

The rewards for this event are "fair" at least in regards to maintaining base equality. Glamours for retainers aside, which SE has addressed.

I do however have a question, that I feel might show how arbitrary this topic is for the current event.

This isn't the first time we've had gender-locked event rewards. And by that I mean the items are seperate, not that they have a different look but are the same item. we've gotten them before in the following events:

Valentine's Day - the male and female aprons. The male version just being a reskin of the culinarian's level 50 outfit. The female version was a complete origional.

Little Ladies Day - the Songbird and Senechal attire, and the Lady and Lord's Suikan, as well as their respective clogs. The Songbird and Senechal outfits are again a "dress" and a "suit" on equal footing, and the Suikan's are very similar too, hemp length being different though. The only major difference being the socks on the female clogs.

Moonfire Faire - various swimsuits and yukatas, all of which are on equal footing with another compared to real world attire. Males even get flat wood clogs and females sockless ones. But at the same time, why can't males get a one-piece swim suit and females a more sporty look with shirts and a crop top?

All Saint's Wake - the Werewolf outfits are unique with the female outfit being "cuter" and getting a skirt again? Why does a werewolf need a skirt. Why can't males be cute? Also of special mention is the Witch's attire which while one item, is a whole outfit on females compared to males since females have the skirt attached.

The Garo Event also had unique outfits for some of the female jobs, that arguably were better than the male versions.

So it's not like any of this is new. And in most cases the same rules applied, you could only receive the one for your gender, but maybe get the other gendered one later, through either the event or the Calamity Salvager. So why the uproar now. In all of the previous instances the gear was fair, something equally nice for males and females, but no one ever really complained, at least not to this much of a degree.

Honestly, I really do think it's a case of the female outfit being really disliked among the people who play female characters. And because they dislike it people are clamoring for the unlock, probably because the male version is similarly themed but less busy. I'm not saying gender-locking is good, or that things shouldn't be unlocked, but I dont think this outfit is the proper platform to hard press the issue on. I think people just don't like the female version and don't wanna just say that and move on. Honestly, how often do you wear the other event specific items, that usually have specific themes that people might not wanna wear on a daily basis.

Not every piece of gear will be for everyone, bit that doesnt mean the devs are being unfair.

[Iscah]

I do however have a question, that I feel might show how arbitrary this topic is for the current event.

This isn't the first time we've had gender-locked event rewards. And by that I mean the items are seperate, not that they have a different look but are the same item. we've gotten them before in the following events:

Valentine's Day - the male and female aprons. The male version just being a reskin of the culinarian's level 50 outfit. The female version was a complete origional.

Little Ladies Day - the Songbird and Senechal attire, and the Lady and Lord's Suikan, as well as their respective clogs. The Songbird and Senechal outfits are again a "dress" and a "suit" on equal footing, and the Suikan's are very similar too, hemp length being different though. The only major difference being the socks on the female clogs.

Moonfire Faire - various swimsuits and yukatas, all of which are on equal footing with another compared to real world attire. Males even get flat wood clogs and females sockless ones. But at the same time, why can't males get a one-piece swim suit and females a more sporty look with shirts and a crop top?

All Saint's Wake - the Werewolf outfits are unique with the female outfit being "cuter" and getting a skirt again? Why does a werewolf need a skirt. Why can't males be cute? Also of special mention is the Witch's attire which while one item, is a whole outfit on females compared to males since females have the skirt attached.

The Garo Event also had unique outfits for some of the female jobs, that arguably were better than the male versions.

So it's not like any of this is new. And in most cases the same rules applied, you could only receive the one for your gender, but maybe get the other gendered one later, through either the event or the Calamity Salvager. So why the uproar now. In all of the previous instances the gear was fair, something equally nice for males and females, but no one ever really complained, at least not to this much of a degree.

Honestly, I really do think it's a case of the female outfit being really disliked among the people who play female characters. And because they dislike it people are clamoring for the unlock, probably because the male version is similarly themed but less busy. I'm not saying gender-locking is good, or that things shouldn't be unlocked, but I dont think this outfit is the proper platform to hard press the issue on. I think people just don't like the female version and don't wanna just say that and move on. Honestly, how often do you wear the other event specific items, that usually have specific themes that people might not wanna wear on a daily basis.

Not every piece of gear will be for everyone, bit that doesnt mean the devs are being unfair.

This isn't the first time people have complained about genderlocks on event gear. I was definitely unhappy about the Endless Summer set being shorts for boys and briefs for girls again, and I'm pretty sure there was a discussion about it. I didn't like the werewolf skirt either, or the Spriggan pants turning into short-shorts, and I'm sure I've repeated my dislike for pants-becoming-miniskirts in general far too many times by now.

I feel like the Songbird and Suikan outfits really are good counterparts - the same outfit adapted to suit each gender.

I don't mind the recycled CUL gear really - it's still cute, and I got the pants I needed for my alt's White Rabbit costume out of it.

Also I know people love to complain about the witch outfit not giving pants for the male version, but how hard is it to put on one of the existing pairs of plain pants that would have inevitably been recycled for the model anyway? People would probably complain about that instead.

I think people just don't like the female version and don't wanna just say that and move on.

I think we are saying that. We're not avoiding it.

Honestly, how often do you wear the other event specific items, that usually have specific themes that people might not wanna wear on a daily basis.

That's ultimately part of the issue here. Female characters get a "cute Valentine's dress" with hearts and frills. Males get a waistcoat that is going to be useful throughout the year. We don't have anything in that style currently - or not broadly available, at least.

[Eloah]

This isn't the first time people have complained about genderlocks on event gear. I was definitely unhappy about the Endless Summer set being shorts for boys and briefs for girls again, and I'm pretty sure there was a discussion about it. I didn't like the werewolf skirt either, or the Spriggan pants turning into short-shorts, and I'm sure I've repeated my dislike for pants-becoming-miniskirts in general far too many times by now.

I feel like the Songbird and Suikan outfits really are good counterparts - the same outfit adapted to suit each gender.

I don't mind the recycled CUL gear really - it's still cute, and I got the pants I needed for my alt's White Rabbit costume out of it.

Also I know people love to complain about the witch outfit not giving pants for the male version, but how hard is it to put on one of the existing pairs of plain pants that would have inevitably been recycled for the model anyway? People would probably complain about that instead.
-
I think we are saying that. We're not avoiding it.
-
That's ultimately part of the issue here. Female characters get a "cute Valentine's dress" with hearts and frills. Males get a waistcoat that is going to be useful throughout the year. We don't have anything in that style currently - or not broadly available, at least.

I'm not trying to say people haven't voiced displeasure with past outfits, but it does seem like people are a bit more "hurt" than in previous events. I think you are right that part of the issue might be that the female version is more "on theme" than the male version.

I think a few of the past outfits, as you said, do work nicely together. Which is why I personally am a bit confused, since I thought this years outfits paired well too, and fit the whole suit/dress theme. But the overall unpopularity of the dress is just rather surprising.

As for the CUL apron and the Witches attire. The issue there is more about the recycling effort. Both male versions are just recyles of already established outfits, with a few holiday embellishments added. Whereas the female version is 100% original for the Valentione's apron or a lot more edited for the Witch's attire. That's why people got upset with those since it wasn't a case of just disliking the outfit, but it felt like SE put in no effort for the male versions. This issue has obviously gotten better.

I've read comments, such as yours, that are just simple "I'm not pleased" comments, that just show your overall dissatisfaction. But there are some other comments that I have read that make it sound like they want the devs skewered alive for doing this.

[Tsalmaveth]

There was an interview were Yoshida was quoted saying they were going to be easing off and removing restrictions. It got people's hopes WAY way up. Then data was found with sets being unlocked. People got... VERY excited. Then the 2B set appeared.

People have been... chomping at the bit. The thought that 'hey... maybe JUST maybe... the devs have learned that we do not like or want sets to be this way IN GENERAL and they should stop doing it' as a whole. That we, the players, thought the overall feeling from the developers had started to move AWAY from this from seeing the mentioned interview and the 'found data' and so on... we are A TAD BIT DISAPPOINTED about all of this. And these forums are EXACTLY THE PLACE to voice our feelings on the matter. This is where FEEDBACK is supposed to be. It isn't just 'hey... so the dress is ugly so... NOW we're going to complain'... Nah. It ain't that. It's build up from other things.

[Sated]

It's honestly disheartening to see so many people rag on the dress. I know it's not as unique a look as the vest is but I love it. I really wish I could use it.

[WhiteArchmage]

It's honestly disheartening to see so many people rag on the dress. I know it's not as unique a look as the vest is but I love it. I really wish I could use it.

My main gripe about the dress is that those kind of skirts don't translate well to taller races. As Iscah pointed out, the skirts tend to flare and angle awkwardly as they're designed for the more "kawaii waifu" body types like Au Ra. It's not BAD, it's just an awkward look and Viera look downright amazing in shirts and slacks. Hell, I'd even take turning off the ears to wear the guys' hat (although the ladies' hat also looks pretty dapper). But hey, if people like the dress and want to wear it, male or female, that's cool, too, just not my thing.

EDIT: Also, good gods that princess dress looks terrible, thank the gods I never bought it.

[Eloah]

My main gripe about the dress is that those kind of skirts don't translate well to taller races. As Iscah pointed out, the skirts tend to flare and angle awkwardly as they're designed for the more "kawaii waifu" body types like Au Ra. It's not BAD, it's just an awkward look and Viera look downright amazing in shirts and slacks. Hell, I'd even take turning off the ears to wear the guys' hat (although the ladies' hat also looks pretty dapper). But hey, if people like the dress and want to wear it, male or female, that's cool, too, just not my thing.

EDIT: Also, good gods that princess dress looks terrible, thank the gods I never bought it.

If you notice, the images to show us how the dress looks on females, only shows them on the smaller races, noe Roe, Elezen, or Highlander.