Mentors...please!

[SoranRigel]

It seems to me that you did not quite correctly understand the post of RajNish.
It was not about whether silence is toxic, but whether selfish behavior is toxic, satisfying one’s desires and ambitions at the expense of others.

[RajNish]

First of all, there is no ''tactics'' to normal big pulls in dungeons.

If the DPS of the group is very low, as was the case, the pulls should be smaller. If your DPS do not cope, but you continue to pull from wall to wall, then something is wrong with your understanding of the situation.

[AmeliaVerves]

I was not talking about silence. Pulls ahead of the tank, ignoring group capabilities, ignoring the mechanics, trolling, this is toxic. And, unfortunately, such actions are most noticeable if the player with the crown does it. This tank could be silent, but at least stop and think, the group can’t cope, make the pulls smaller.

Ala Mhigo. Tank mentor, in the group, there are two newcomers. And it is clear that they have no idea what to do. He takes a large pool, but the DPS is very low. Wipe. Here it would be nice to stop, explain tactics and go more carefully. But he again makes a large pool without saying a word.

Is it toxic? I think yes.

You were talking about silence tho.
We can argue wether or not that mentor was a dumb dumb for pulling too much, but being not very smart and being toxic are two very different things.

If you want to make foolishness report-able, ok, well, idk, but you just assumed this mentor was toxic and had selfish intentions, but you don't know for sure. Still disagree to this being toxic tho.
Becoming a mentor has nothing to do with your skill tho. You don't need to be a good player to become a mentor and while I think this is a problem, idk how this problem could be solved any other way than making savage clears a requirement. But then again rAiDeRs ArE tOxIc AnD eLiTiSt.

[Neoom]

If the DPS of the group is very low, as was the case, the pulls should be smaller. If your DPS do not cope, but you continue to pull from wall to wall, then something is wrong with your understanding of the situation.

How is that ''tactics'' tho? That doesn't equal bad dps, that means there is something gimmicky in the pull (a bear that hits like a truck, or some trash do ''tank busters'') that's tactics, not ''dps is low can't pull that big''. Of course you should realize to pull small if dps is low, but not every tank does that, some of them will pull big anyway, mentor or not.

[SoranRigel]

You were talking about silence tho.
We can argue wether or not that mentor was a dumb dumb for pulling too much, but being not very smart and being toxic are two very different things.

If you want to make foolishness report-able, ok, well, idk, but you just assumed this mentor was toxic and had selfish intentions, but you don't know for sure. Still disagree to this being toxic tho.
Becoming a mentor has nothing to do with your skill tho. You don't need to be a good player to become a mentor and while I think this is a problem, idk how this problem could be solved any other way than making savage clears a requirement. But then again rAiDeRs ArE tOxIc AnD eLiTiSt.

Did you really see just that? In this case, I understand why in this discussion it is customary to ignore the proof and turn uncomfortable examples inside out.

This dishonest discussion technique is called “pushing back the gate": no matter what evidence you are presented with, your bar of "convincing evidence" will arbitrarily shift. It has already been repeatedly.

Someone in this thread asked me to provide evidence that the recommendation system needs to be reformed. I quoted the same player in another topic, where she admits that she gives recommendations for beautiful glamor, completely not paying attention to how much this person knows the content.
For this proof, I was called a "stalker", although the discussion was just next door.

[AmeliaVerves]

Did you really see just that?

The thing is, everything that came after was pure assumption. He doesn't know anything of why the mentor acted the way he did. Maybe he just didn't know better.
As I said before: you do not need to be anywhere near decent in skill to become a mentor and just because the person kept going without talking doesn't mean it was a bad intention. In that very example I do not see anything toxic going on.
Yes, it was heckin stupid to keep pulling big but idk what to tell you. I main healers ever since HW, but I can't heal stupid and neither can SE. Kick the tank or leave the dungeon and move on, ppl are dumb sometimes and no system in the world will ever prevent this lmao.

Assuming someones intentions or train of thought is no evidence tho and it shouldn't be treated as that. idk about your example, I didn't read everything in this thread, so I'd rather not comment on that. I agree the commendation system is useless tho and I am 100% indifferent about SE changing, removing or keeping it. I simply couldn't care less since it has 0 value.

[RajNish]

You were talking about silence tho.
We can argue wether or not that mentor was a dumb dumb for pulling too much, but being not very smart and being toxic are two very different things. If you want to make foolishness report-able, ok, well, idk, but you just assumed this mentor was toxic and had selfish intentions, but you don't know for sure. Still disagree to this being toxic tho.

If a person has completed the content enough to have 460 IL, he is definitely not dumb. And if a person at the same time continues to to stress the group, it is toxic.

But then again rAiDeRs ArE tOxIc AnD eLiTiSt.

I did not say that. As mentioned above, I was a raider in another game. And, according to the experience of raiding, such people were simply kicked out of the group. Do you know why? Just because they easily fail the raid, acting selfishly.

Here is an example. We had a guy with an extremely high DPS in previous game, and in the last fight, with several bosses, where all DPS need to stop at 40% of the boss HP (this is the mechanics that he was explained in detail), he intentionally continued to beat boss, simply because "He’s cool". The next day he was not in the team, because his actions were toxic and did not correspond to group task.

[AmeliaVerves]

If a person has completed the content enough to have 460 IL, he is definitely not dumb. And if a person at the same time continues to to stress the group, it is toxic..

I gotta be honest: you can be whatever ilvl and still have less IQ than a rock. If you are capable of breathing and play long enough you will eventually have enough commendations and classes leveled to become a mentor. It doesn't mean this applies to all mentors tho and I truly believe some are really nice ppl and honestly want to help.

The next day he was not in the team, because his actions were toxic and did not correspond to group task.

I agree to this decision and would have done the same. But the circumstances are somewhat different since it was a premade group that came together and actively decided and chose to play together, right? I find it hard to apply the same rules for DF content like dungeons, but as I said before: SE accepts 'difference in playstyle' as a valid reason to kick someone, so ppl should make use of that system in those cases.

[RajNish]

How is that ''tactics'' tho? That doesn't equal bad dps, that means there is something gimmicky in the pull (a bear that hits like a truck, or some trash do ''tank busters'') that's tactics, not ''dps is low can't pull that big''. Of course you should realize to pull small if dps is low, but not every tank does that, some of them will pull big anyway, mentor or not.

Ah, yes. Britannica will help us with this.

The word tactics originates in the Greek taxis, meaning order, arrangement, or disposition—including the kind of disposition in which armed formations used to enter and fight battles. From this, the Greek historian Xenophon derived the term tactica, the art of drawing up soldiers in array. Likewise, the Tactica, an early 10th-century handbook said to have been written under the supervision of the Byzantine emperor Leo VI the Wise, dealt with formations as well as weapons and the ways of fighting with them.

The term tactics fell into disuse during the European Middle Ages. It reappeared only toward the end of the 17th century, when “Tacticks” was used by the English encyclopaedist John Harris to mean “the Art of Disposing any Number of Men into a proposed form of Battle.” Further development took place toward the end of the 18th century. Until then, authors had considered fighting to be almost the sum total of war; now, however, it began to be regarded as merely one part of war. The art of fighting itself continued to carry the name tactics, whereas that of making the fight take place under the most favourable circumstances, as well as utilizing it after it had taken place, was given a new name: strategy.

Knowing how many opponents you can take, how to position yourself, how many DPS you have and what do with it. I hope everything is clear to you now.

[Neoom]

Knowing how many opponents you can take, how to position yourself, how many DPS you have and what do with it. I hope everything is clear to you now.

Thank you for explaining this to such a dummy as myself
Explain this to every tank main who pulls big, their only tactic they know is to pull from wall to wall. What explaining is there to do? You didn't state was the dps bad, just because they didn't do AoE or just generally low since gear or some other reasons. So were are missing information here, and it doesn't need a mentor to say ''use AoE skills to kill stuff''