Mentors...please!

[Banriikku]

@ Soran Riegel Hmm so what i see is : my opinion is right and yours wrong and if you disagree with me you are bad person etc. Thats not really a discussion.
You just ignor every argument that dont fit your theory. Also you dont explain your viewpoint at all. You just attack all mentors at once and try to etablish the term mentor=toxic. And try every person that disagree with you to make a defender of bad behavior. Thats rude polemical. You try to establish victims and offender with nothing in between.
On the topic itself toxic behavior and mentor status is just a corelation not a causality.

[RajNish]

@ Soran Riegel Hmm so what i see is : my opinion is right and yours wrong and if you disagree with me you are bad person etc. Thats not really a discussion.
You just ignor every argument that dont fit your theory. Also you dont explain your viewpoint at all. You just attack all mentors at once and try to etablish the term mentor=toxic. And try every person that disagree with you to make a defender of bad behavior. Thats rude polemical. You try to establish victims and offender with nothing in between.
On the topic itself toxic behavior and mentor status is just a corelation not a causality.

I beg you, look at the beginning of this discussion. It’s very strange to see how people joining it do not bother reading the thread. If you want to have all the information, please read. No one here says that mentors are bad just because they are mentors. We are talking about people who break the rules, insult other players, do not help, but continue to be mentors somehow.

What is a Mentor
Mentors are veteran players who chose to offer their time and experience to help guide new adventurers. To facilitate their assistance, mentors will gain access to a special chat channel as well as a means to easily register for duties and trials with new players.
As a mentor you are expected to actively perform the following:
1. Provide gameplay advice for new adventurers and other players.
2. Be an exemplar for player etiquette.
3. Invite new adventurers to the Novice Network and answer their queries in the chat channel.

Also we are talking here about a possible changes of the mentor's system. I do not know why most of people began to get so nervous and replace the original thread meaning.

[SoranRigel]

I do not know why most of people began to get so nervous and replace the original thread meaning.

I have no other assumptions than this: the topic of "toxic mentors" for some strange reason is very relevant and painful for them.
Therefore, they make a great effort to neutralize this fact, question it, and shift the focus to the speaker's personality.

[Thamorian]

I have no other assumptions than this: the topic of "toxic mentors" for some strange reason is very relevant and painful for them.
Therefore, they make a great effort to neutralize this fact, question it, and shift the focus to the speaker's personality.

You've not proven anything as fact nor provided any evidence as such. Just because you say it is a fact does not make it so. All that's been referenced as evidence is a few threads by a few people that claim there is a toxic mentor problem, yet in these same threads when you look through the pages of posts, there are more individuals responding that no there isn't a bigger problem and if someone is being toxic, report them. It gets annoying seeing these "I ran into a mean mentor. We need to abolish the whole mentor system!" threads popping up from time to time.

[Banriikku]

A mentor chose to help.
I do not excuse any kind of insulting or any other way of rulebreaking or bad behavior. Such players need to be reported.
The claim many mentor player are toxic has still no prove and no explanation.
I am for a change but my concern is the commendation system and that stupid crown symbol (should be a watering can instead) and not the demand for punishment.
Policing the mentor system more in a way that seems like punishment for no reason is unhelpfull and destructive.
We need more enforcement of the rules but this is not mentor specific.
A toxic player is toxic because of his behavior not the mentor crown.

The claim the mentor specific rewards are the reason for MANY player to participate in the mentor system is not understandable.

Mentor Rewards:
The Title Mentor 50 Duyts (Mentor Roulette)
The Title : Mentor of Mentors 500 Dutys (Mentor Roulette)
Item Hat 200 Dutys
Item Monocle 1000 Dutys (Mentor Roulette)
The Mount Astrope 2000 Dutys (Mentor Roulette)

The mount is well earned with 2000 dutys. I fail to see what rewards are handed out that justify that statement.


I cant see what part of the mentor system encourages poor behavior.
The demand a mentor has to help if not he/she/it should be punished is unfounded.
Putting up some extrem requirements for mentors is absolut nonsense. But i agree the requirement shouldn't be just recommendations rather "kill every Extrem encounter 10 times".


My wishes are:
Change the crown to a watering can
Change the recommendation system or take it off from the mentor system and find a new way to evaluate the qualification for the mentorstatus.
NO Mounts/Minions or other fancy stuff as rewards.

My last wish is more off topic but we need somekind of general chat so that the socialization and the not game related talk goes there and the NN is just a help chat for sprouts, returning players and such.

But i am absolutely against these "you have to" demands. A mentor helps voluntary.
The argument "there are rulebreaking mentors" - do you have reported them ? If so then what is your problem ? They are still playing ? Then Se has decided that it was not enough to bann them. You are still unhappy but cant do anything ? Welcome my Friend you took the red pill.

[SoranRigel]

You've not proven anything as fact nor provided any evidence as such.

If you are not GM then I am not required to provide any "special evidence" for you. They are provided for GM regularly in my reports (and my Free Company mates).

The fact that, unfortunately, often these reports do not lead to a ban of toxic mentors has already been discussed here.
It was also said here that many toxic mentors, well aware that police measures can be applied to them, are able to avoid direct violations and to veiled an abuze.
It was also said here that, unfortunately, the "add to the blacklist" system does not guarantee that you will not get into the party with these toxic mentors.
Also here and in a similar discussion on Reddit there are many people who confirm the negative experience of communicating with "mentors."

However, if everything has already been said, why do you continue to devalue the problem and experience of all these people and insist on methods that do not work?

If they were working, it is logical to assume that it would not be necessary to question the entire "mentoring system" as a whole.

[RajNish]

GM replied to one of my reports that I can write about the problem on forum. So, as you can see, this is exhaustive evidence that I have the right to discuss the problem and how to solve it on the SE forums.

[SoranRigel]

A toxic player is toxic because of his behavior not the mentor crown.

Let me supplement you substantially.
I 've already talked here about the impact of symbols of authority - such as awards, crown, riding animals, title - on the behavior of players with unstable behavior. Awards provoke them not to help, but to reach, and in these conditions assistance to beginners is perceived as an unfortunate obstacle. Authority is quite capable of changing behavior, and the most striking proof of this is the Stanford prison experiment.

At the same time, I have repeatedly faced a situation where the group refused to kick a toxic mentor without supporting the request. And that 's the other side of the problem: the gaming community is so tolerant of toxicity that it stopped noticing it.

[SoranRigel]

So, as you can see, this is exhaustive evidence that I have the right to discuss the problem and how to solve it on the SE forums.

Interesting and indicative of the problem itself:
you have no right to discuss the issue and talk about your experience until you provide evidence.
No one guarantees that this evidence will be sufficient, lol.

This is the case when I talk about depreciation.

[RajNish]

My wishes are:
Change the crown to a watering can
Change the recommendation system or take it off from the mentor system and find a new way to evaluate the qualification for the mentorstatus.
NO Mounts/Minions or other fancy stuff as rewards.

Here I absolutely agree with you.

Interesting and indicative of the problem itself:
you have no right to discuss the issue and talk about your experience until you provide evidence.
No one guarantees that this evidence will be sufficient, lol.

This is the case when I talk about depreciation.

According to GM's message, in response to my report, I have every right to discuss the problem. In this case, the GM's words have the greatest confidence for me, in contrast to the opinions of users, who do not remember or do not clearly understand the user agreement.