Mentors...please!

[Neoom]

A language barrier as an excuse for toxic behavior and rule-breaking? Hmm... I 'm afraid that 's a weak argument.

In where did I state it was against toxic behavior hmm? You cant read? I was just giving on example how not everyone listens to advice's, but not in ANY point did I say it is okay to be toxic in exchange. It had no link to that, since most times, if you see people dont speak English/same language as you its hard to talk to each other in anyway, even in toxic way (that I do not say is okay). Usually people either stay quiet intead of stating to yell at others for not undertanding since, if you have ever talked to someone in language they do not understand/know its like talking to a wall (not in offensive way) since you cant get a response from them, and you cant understand each other. But as I have seen you in this threat, you want to make bad out of every sentence even if its not bad in any way *shrug*

[SoranRigel]

In where did I state it was against toxic behavior hmm? You cant read?

So if the mentor cant help because of language barrier, are they a bad mentor?

The subject of our conversation is not that mentors cannot help by the fault (real or imaginary) of players, but that the mentoring system provokes mentors to take game achievements and behave toxic, which is fundamentally contrary to the rules of the game.
Please read previous messages in the discussion.

[Reinha]

There should be a counter for how many times they just up and abandon a duty that way if they do it many times their mentor roulette becomes suspended. There should also be a report mentor function that needs to be reviewed so that if someone is abusive to other players as a mentor it should be taken away.

Just noticed this in the OP and I would like to point out that there is a counter like that. DF as a whole is suspended for 30 minutes after leaving a duty or not accepting a queue pop 3 times in a row. Now, we can have a conversation about whether 30 minutes is enough to deter people from leaving duties, but the rule has to be consistent for both mentors and non-mentors. Mentorship does not mean flagging yourself as someone to be excessively punished and abused, as much as the player base would like to think so.

Additionally, mentors can already be reported and have their mentor status revoked.

I'm not sure what fixes people expect at this point. Regardless of what rewards this system provides, mentors who end up in extreme trials are still going to tell you to do it unsynced or use the PF because that's how most people do them. It's teaching you about the in game culture and etiquette. Just because you don't like the advice doesn't mean it's invalid.

[RajNish]

Then why you still complaining here?

All is simple. Problem is identified, and I want to discuss it. Why do you call this a complaint?

And just cause YOU a 1 (one) single person will listen to other players explaining mechanics or other advises this is simply not the case most of the time. Usual response is the ''Dont tell me how to play'' or ''Im doing this blind dont ruin it for me''.

Perhaps I should say that you’re just not lucky with the sprouts, like me with the mentors, and this is a subjective view. But, since we communicate freely here, as I said above, there is still a problem. Lack of communication and interaction. If being a mentor is so hard, why make good people suffer?

So if the mentor cant help because of language barrier, are they a bad mentor?

Usually, the game mechanics are fairly easy to explain. And, of course, this can be done without words like "idiots" etc. This is not about a language barrier.

Report them when you see them on act. Sure everytime you meet one or get one in your game it ruins it for you, but its 1 in 100 or more games. You can live with one bad duty and move on after reporting, what you being mad about it will do? Make you enjoy the game less and have a bad mood. And I'm not saying people have the right to be rude or something, I'm just saying, report/blacklist and move on.

Read the previous posts, please. This thread is not about reporting to GM’s, this thread is about people who are the mentors, but do not match their role.

[SoranRigel]

Now, we can have a conversation about whether 30 minutes is enough to deter people from leaving duties

The increase in the fine will exacerbate the situation when the player, having fallen into a toxic group, wishes to leave it. Now this already presents a problem.
I 'm not sure extending the fine is a good idea, and that 's not what we 're talking about in this topic.

[Thamorian]

The subject of our conversation is not that mentors cannot help by the fault (real or imaginary) of players, but that the mentoring system provokes mentors to take game achievements and behave toxic, which is fundamentally contrary to the rules of the game.
Please read previous messages in the discussion.

No it doesn't. Again. No. It. Does. Not. That is flat out wrong. Correlation does not equal causation. If you want to try to prove that there being mentor achievements causes toxic mentors, you're gonna need to show some evidence. Sorry, your anecdotal evidence does not count. You are the one making the claim, you have to provide the evidence for it.

For a lot of people complaining saying mentor system should be abolished, they think mentors who leave extreme trials without a word or who let sprouts know that if they want to clear an EX trial, it's a lot easier and far faster to put up a party finder and they can do it unsynced is toxic? Perfectly valid and viable suggestion since most just want to clear and not do it synced specifically. I've seen as presented as evidence over and over and over again in these types of threads. Leaving a duty and taking a 30 minute penalty because you know the fight is just gonna be a huge waste of time when it is synced with a random party and only an hour to clear and making no progress or getting a clear is not toxic behavior.

[Thamorian]

Read the previous posts, please. This thread is not about reporting to GM’s, this thread is about people who are the mentors, but do not match their role.

Ok, in your own words, what should a mentor be?


Here's what I've said before over a year ago in another thread:

THIS IS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! This is so far off the mark that you are in China when you should be in New York!

SE did not make savage raiding a requirement to be a mentor. SE made mentor system to help low level players learn the game at a basic level. Basic rotations, general questions, and stuff like character config and system config. Novice Network is filled with new players still progressing through the game starting at level 1. The "New Adventurer" status is applied to all players who have less than 168 hours of play time and have not completed the quest The Far Edge of Fate, not players at end game raiding. Just because you have some twisted idea of what a mentor is supposed to be does not make it true.


No they aren't. The average mentor have the same gameplay skill as the non-mentor. You just have such a biased preconceived notion that mentors should be great at the game that when you run into a bad one, you notice the crown and take notice of it more. I'm sure you ran into a bunch of mentors who played just fine but you didn't notice they had a mentor crown on or you don't remember them because they played their role adequately so there was no noteworthy reason to remember them.

[RajNish]

For a lot of people complaining saying mentor system should be abolished, they think mentors who leave extreme trials without a word or who let sprouts know that if they want to clear an EX trial, it's a lot easier and far faster to put up a party finder and they can do it unsynced is toxic?

I completed Garuda Ex synced on the 6th day of my game. There was a mentor in the group. He was a great guy. After the first wipe, he briefly told what to do. The second time we felt the mechanics. The third time, he said: "Great! We can do it!" And we did.

This guy was a good mentor. He correctly directed people and got the result. First, he was friendly. Second, he saw that we were completely new, but that did not stop him. He helped us, put the marks and explained the features of the phases.

As you can see, I have someone to compare with people who leave Titania normal after the first wipe or initiate a vote to abandon Labyrinth.

Ok, in your own words, what should a mentor be?

This is a player who likes to help beginners. He is experienced and polite, can explain mechanics if necessary, without insults, trolling, shaming or other aggressive actions.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I completed Garuda Ex synced on the 6th day of my game. There was a mentor in the group. He was a great guy. After the first wipe, he briefly told what to do. The second time we felt the mechanics. The third time, he said: "Great! We can do it!" And we did.

This guy was a good mentor. He correctly directed people and got the result. First, he was friendly. Second, he saw that we were completely new, but that did not stop him. He helped us, put the marks and explained the features of the phases.

As you can see, I have someone to compare with people who leave Titania normal after the first wipe or initiate a vote to abandon Labyrinth.



This is a player who likes to help beginners. He is experienced and polite, can explain mechanics if necessary, without insults, trolling, shaming or other aggressive actions.

So.. How does ex content fall into helping beginners? That is not beginner content.

Also, Garuda ex is the easiest of the ex fights now, since you can basically just burn her even synced.

And for a mentor to be any of those things, the people they are teaching have to listen. Which seems to be a rare occurrence these days. Like a super creeper.

[RajNish]

So.. How does ex content fall into helping beginners? That is not beginner content.

Also, Garuda ex is the easiest of the ex fights now, since you can basically just burn her even synced.

Like I said, I was a newbie, like most of this group. This is more complex ARR content that challenges the player. No one can prohibit players from doing this content at the current level. Or force them do it unsynced. Honestly, ARR Ex's still good enough if you make them synchronized. Try to do all of them with minimal allowable item level.

And for a mentor to be any of those things, the people they are teaching have to listen. Which seems to be a rare occurrence these days. Like a super creeper.

I will ask you the same question that I have seen here many times. Why do you remember only bad players and don’t remember those who listened and successfully played with you? Because I saw a lot of accusations here that we blame the mentors, but blaming new players, apparently, are the norm. Judging by this, I see two groups of unhappy people who suffer from each other. Are the crown and mount worth such suffering?