Mentors...please!

[SoranRigel]

I have never seen a party where mentors won't reply if people ask for help.

If you are fortunate enough not to see this, this does not mean that they do not exist.

It's that time of the year where one mentor said something offensive so all mentors should go to hell. The usual stuff.

Unfortunately, far from the only one.
You can verify this using the example of this thread.

There is a systemic and widespread phenomenon. The mentoring system does not work.

[Hatfright]

But being able to clear Expert Level Trials is a requirement (Heavy /s)

If I remember correctly, it's only for roulette, not the status itself.
Besides, mentor roulette doesn't require last expansion Ex Trials either. Other stuff can be cleared unsync just for the sake of it. SB Extremes can be a bother, but insignificant one if you're willing to give your group another shot after first wipe.
I doubt I'd be considered a "good player" in terms of content cleared or dps output, but even I almost finished with unlocking that roulette. To use it or not is another thing. I mean, if you do, you know what you sigh up for before you hit that "queue" button. Not "you" as "you in particular", but you get the idea.

I have never seen a party where mentors won't reply if people ask for help.

Lucky you.
In my 2 years of playing I've run into almost fully crowned parties with 1 or 2 newbies exeptions on Trials. My favorite was Moogle King run, where half of crowns tried to burn king down ignoring adds on second half of the fight (was jealous of the shinier crown, I suppose), and one idiot messed up target marks everytime it were correctly put to help new people get an idea of what needs to be done. Funniest part was blaming healers for not saving them from raidwipe aoe twice in a row. Makes you wonder how many of those crowned ones got the status just for the sake of it with no intent to be somewhat helpful. And that's just one example. Extreme, to be sure, but still.
Yes, there's trolls with crown and without it, but from people who supposed to help you'd think you can expect a little decency at least.

[Alaeacus]

You're dramatizing. If you bother to read the beginning of the thread, you will see what is at stake.
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w...Novice_Network

Mentors are veteran players who chose to offer their time and experience to help guide new adventurers. To facilitate their assistance, mentors will gain access to a special chat channel as well as a means to easily register for duties and trials with new players.

As a mentor you are expected to actively perform the following:

Provide gameplay advice for new adventurers and other players.
Be an exemplar for player etiquette.
Invite new adventurers to the Novice Network and answer their queries in the chat channel.

But if you consider this a masochism, then, unfortunately, there is nothing to be done.

Nope, not dramatizing at all based on one simple point:

"Be an exemplar for player etiquette."

This one simple, but vague, rule that you have chosen to outline is interpreted one-thousand different ways by players. Players have their own internal interpretation for what the words "Exemplar" and "Etiquette" mean, and these players force their own interpretations onto Mentors. If Mentors don't live up to a player's standards, they come to the forums and throw a hissy-fit against the Mentor system.

It's SE's fault for writing such a terribly vague statement in a rule set without defining terms, and it's the player's fault for expecting Mentors to act like Mother Theresa. An exemplar for one culture is vastly different than an exemplar for another. Etiquette is VASTLY different across cultures. There are NO universal truths for what an exemplar, or good etiquette, actually means.

If you think everyone around you should uphold and abide by the standards of etiquette that you personally find important, than you have already lost at life.

[RajNish]

There are NO universal truths for what an exemplar, or good etiquette, actually means.

You are mistaken, again. I don’t know how long you have been playing games, so I’ll put another link for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaming_etiquette

Universal gaming etiquette

In most games, players are generally encouraged to be polite and courteous to one another, and avoid excessive profanity and trash talk. Players are also expected to be friendly and welcoming to newcomers, (generally referred to as newbies, or the somewhat more derogative terms Noob or N00b) and remember that their lack of skill or understanding of the game is only due to their lack of experience with the game. Taking a new player "under their wing" so to speak is also considered a form of courtesy. It's also a generally accepted rule that a game's events and outcomes shouldn't be taken personally by the players.

[Alaeacus]

You are mistaken, again. ... so I’ll put another link for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaming_etiquette

Lol. I love how you consider a wiki article written by an anonymous author to be some sort of data driven consensus across the entire world of gamers. If your definition were so "universal", than we wouldn't have such a widespread problem with toxicity in the gaming world. Not so "universal" now is it? There has, to date, likely been no dissent on that wiki page simply because very few people even care to add or refine it. It's not a statement of FACT, so nobody can refute it.

But go ahead. Keep using generalized ideas held by a few people as a blanket statement as some universal truth (I suspect you don't even know what the term "universal truth" means).

P.S. Your own wiki doesn't work as throughout this entire thread, people are guilty of conflating and intertwining "gaming etiquette" with "moral human etiquette".

P.P.S. A page from your own book:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_of_Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe...ral_disclaimer

P.P.P.S.

I don’t know how long you have been playing games

Long enough to know that complaining about how other people play a game is naive, futile, and childish. You'll have better luck standing in a river and screaming at it to change its direction.

[Zazay]

You are mistaken, again. I don’t know how long you have been playing games, so I’ll put another link for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaming_etiquette

Mhm, good luck getting this universal gaming ettiquette on battle royale / ego shooter games.

As for a good etiquette in general, FFXIV is quite fine in my opinion, especially to newcomers. People see a sprout icon and they usually know to take things slower. This however might differ between the various data centers incl. the cultures/language varieties they come with.

[SoranRigel]

The illustrations in this thread clearly show the big problem.

[Kenky]

You are mistaken, again. I don’t know how long you have been playing games, so I’ll put another link for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaming_etiquette

While I am sure plenty of people would prefer to be courteous and polite..

Well, we all know there's plenty of games and communities outside of gaming as a whole that at as far from "polite" as theoretically possible. Not everyone that plays games are going to hold their tongue, if something upsets them and what upsets them can be a multitude of things varying from "understandable" to something so minute, so inconsequentially small, that the general populace would deem it stupid or idiotic to let it get under your skin.

FFXIV, while it does have its rougher sides sometimes, is more on the "understanding" and "polite" side of the spectrum. But that's not because our mentors are good or altruistic. In fact, most of the people that are nice and understanding to new players aren't even Mentors, nor do they have any motivation to BECOME Mentors, purely because of the stigma that surrounds that crown icon.

On Mateus (from personal view and experience, that is.) people ignore or shun Mentors, purely because the majority of them (again from experience) are egotistic and demand everything be done to THEIR specifications, or claim that everyone but them are insignificant and worthless, to the point of them leaving the duty. Unable to bring themselves to "Waste their time on newbs like us".

Giving help when its asked is all one can really do. If people don't ask for help, then don't shove it in their face. You don't need a crown to do that. But I can understand that not everyone plays games to help others out. Plenty play to vent their anger, to get away from stresses.

[Thamorian]

The illustrations in this thread clearly show the big problem.

People are FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR more likely to complain about something than give praise. No there isn't a big problem, what you are seeing grouping of complaints in a small area which gives it a magnifying effect. People making a mountain out of a molehill.

If Apple sold 50 million phone in a quarter (about average of what they actually sell during a non-release quarter) and 100,000 iPhones came out defective and being reported heavily on in tech media, 100,000 would sound like a lot but thats only 0.2% of the phones, less than 1%.

There are several thousand people who have unlocked mentor, both who do and don't wear the crown. You hear of what? DOZENS of mentors who are problematic? Um, ok, yeah it's a MAJOR problem. /s

This thread is not showing an illustration, it's showing an illusion, a few loud mouths who complain loudly because they met one bad mentor who left an impression and their friends told them or they read that all mentors are bad, giving a magnifying effect. You never notice or remember the good mentors. Human nature to more easily remember a negative experience.

Judge the individual, not the burger king crown. Mentors are no better or worse than non-mentors. Just because people spit in their face doesn't mean they have to stand there and take it with a smile because you see a crown next to their name.

[RajNish]

Not so "universal" now is it? There has, to date, likely been no dissent on that wiki page simply because very few people even care to add or refine it. It's not a statement of FACT, so nobody can refute it.

But go ahead. Keep using generalized ideas held by a few people as a blanket statement as some universal truth (I suspect you don't even know what the term "universal truth" means).

P.S. Your own wiki doesn't work as throughout this entire thread, people are guilty of conflating and intertwining "gaming etiquette" with "moral human etiquette".

A good attempt to get away from the original topic and go on to discuss my knowledge of philosophy. Don’t worry, please, I remember the university course well enough. You initially raised the question incorrectly.

Several generations of players have grown up on a simple game system. Be polite, help others and work for the success of the group. As you see, it is not necessary to be Mother Teresa (by the way, I suspect you have not read criticism of her actions in the context of human rights). So yes, you don’t have to be Mother Teresa.

And, finally, with regard to the difference of cultures. This is again an incorrect comparison, since we are currently speaking in the paradigm of game culture, or rather, subculture.

This thread is not showing an illustration, it's showing an illusion, a few loud mouths who complain loudly because they met one bad mentor who left an impression and their friends told them or they read that all mentors are bad, giving a magnifying effect. You never notice or remember the good mentors. Human nature to more easily remember a negative experience.

If the systems worked well, you would not see an increase in the number of recommendations, as an attempt to fix it. Be the first to create a thread for thanks, and I will write there. At the moment I'm talking about the problem, I will write here because I consider it necessary and important, whether you like it or not.