Mentors...please!

[LineageRazor]

Sorry, but once again. I'm not talking about training. I am talking about the mentors unacceptable behavior.

DarkMasamune addressed this topic as well. One rude mentor. In six years of the Mentor system.

Rude and unpleasant mentors seriously aren't that common. Do they exist? Sure. I challenge you to come up with a Mentor selection system capable of keeping unpleasant people out. (Such a system would be SO useful in real life, too!) Bear in mind, you'd also need to fine-tune the system so it also keeps out Mentors who are usually nice, but might sometimes have a bad day. Your selection system must accept ONLY Mentors who are sunny and pleasant ALL THE TIME - otherwise the mentor system is TOXIC!!! (Or so one might gather by reading the various "A Mentor Ate Mah Baby!" threads that pop up here from time to time.) Regardless, mentors who are outright unpleasant people are pretty rare. Like all bad things, though, they tend to stick in one's mind a lot more than the good or average things do.

If you expand the definition of "unacceptable" to also include mentors who are simply unhelpful - well, that pool is much larger, I'll admit. And sometimes, being unhelpful is justified, if the group clearly does not need help. I've heard people complain about Mentors who remain silent throughout an entire dungeon run - but when asked if the run ran into any problems that needed mentoring, they admit that no, everything went smoothly.

This thread was about Expert Trials, though, and the mentors that abandon them. I agree that this is bad behavior - but I also think that the mentors who suggest the runs be done unsynced are giving good advice. Even if you're a player who wishes to be challenged by the old content (at least, as much as you actually can be, given the stacking Echo and overgearing), duty finder is a terrible way to get that buzz. For one thing, it takes forever to fill a party, even with mentor roulette helping out. Then you run into the OP's problem, of mentors who drop out without even trying, which will delay things even longer until enough tolerant mentors fill in to give the run a try.

It's MUCH better to use Party Finder, whether you plan on running the content synced or not, and if a Mentor gives this advice, they are doing good mentoring. Using party finder, you can find like-minded folks who are actually interested in doing the content in the way you wish to do it - and, more importantly, can do the run with you multiple times. Depending on the trial, it's often difficult to win an Extreme trial in a single one-hour session. You need several sessions of progress, and using Duty Finder, you're likely to end up with a whole new team each time you run it, many of whom may be unfamiliar with the fight to the point you're starting from scratch each and every time.

Even when these trials were relevant content in their prime, folks did not use Duty Finder to run them. Folks that use Duty Finder now, do so because they do not know any better. A mentor that educates them on their mistake is doing good work.

[RajNish]

Yeah, I'm aware of that. The BL thing really isn't working as it should and reports aren't doing much. That's why I said there isn't much else to be done. People can be toxic, mentors or not, and building a system where no mentors would be toxic would be great, but I can't really see how this could be done (even thought it would be great, yeah).

The BL system needs to be reworked. For example, in other games, if you add someone to the blacklist, you will no longer meet him in a random group. The base of FF 14 players is wide enough to form a random group with these parameters.

Moreover, I think that mentors should have their own reputation system, based not only on the number of recommendations. However, this implies that players must be proactive to report, not just silently leave, considering rudeness and insults as the norm.

DarkMasamune addressed this topic as well. One rude mentor. In six years of the Mentor system.

Thank you for your wit, it makes me smile. Let's first clarify who is a good mentor. And let's answer the question. Does bad mood, family problems, stressful work justify insulting people? If you think so, I see no reason to discuss further with you.

Before rushing into battle for a beautiful shiny mount, you had to read the terms of the contract. It's simple. Yes, in fact, you can get into the prog group with beginners. I know what prog group is, I was the leader of prog group in another game. But many people said about the player’s skills, if I’m not mistaken. If you have your skills, that's not a problem isn't it? Consequently, the reward goes to the worthy, and ... patient. Even if you’re tired and intend to leave, why not say: "Sorry, guys, I'm tired, let's call it." Such meek words for someone who knows the English alphabet enough to say "Hello!".

And finally. If this were a thread dedicated to people who really help, no matter what, I would write a laudatory ode to them. But here we talk about problems. And ofcourse, the passive aggression itself is a good and clear marker.

[Alaeacus]

I think some people expect Mentors to act like in-game SE Community Managers or SE Moderators. Mentors are not paid employees. Mentors should not have some strict job constraints forced upon them because other people expect them to act with a certain moral decorum.

There are bad Mentors and good Mentors. They chose to enter Mentor Roulette. So did you. Mentors should expect bad players. Players should expect bad Mentors. It's a two-way street. It's the risk both of you take. You want to place more penalties on Mentors? Get ready to never see your waiting queue pop in Mentor Roulette because nobody will tag themselves as Mentor. There is already barely any reward with roulettes.

There are bad tanks and there are good tanks. Should we start placing extra penalty on bad tanks because they aren't playing the game the way WE think they should be playing?

I'm not a Mentor, but I would rather be locked out of my roulettes for 24 hours than deal with a group of entitled, undergeared people in an Extreme giving me attitude if I suggest we Vote Abandon. Some people hold entire groups hostage because they refuse to Vote Abandon. If SE DOES decide to place a 24 hour penalty on Mentors who leave, I will never flag as Mentor. Simple cause and effect.

Keep in mind: A lot of us have 300 other Steam games that won't lock us out of content for being a "meanie". Player retention will always take a hit the more constraints, regulations, and barriers a developer places on content. Mentor Roulette can easily become a ghost town.