Originally Posted by Lastelli

Anyone at level 80 knows the basics of their job. Anyone can understand the basics of a role by reading a few lines of text. Is knowing that a tank should keep aggro enough to be a mentor? Or telling a sprout dps that he's supposed to use aoe skills during a big pull? I think not. You can do that without the crown, and any vaguely decent player will understand that by looking at their tooltips before getting to level 30.

Jump potions. I could jump DRK to 70, bumble my way through the MSQ, and still get to 80 without even turning on tank stance. Especially with Trusts.

Level is never an indication of skill in this game. And this response will age poorly when 6.0 launches and we get lv80 jump potions.

Originally Posted by Gula

Jump potions. I could jump DRK to 70, bumble my way through the MSQ, and still get to 80 without even turning on tank stance. Especially with Trusts.

Level is never an indication of skill in this game.

True, but that's again not the point here. The point is, you don't need tp be a mentor to expain the basics of the job (which was what I was arguing in the first place). If someone didn't understand the basics after leveling from 70 to 80 (which requires approximately 20 hours of play time, more than many full games), he's not the kind of player that would pay attention to what a mentor says. What's the chance of knowing absolutely nothing about you job after 20 hours of gameplay? Close to zero. Even if you used a jump potion. That's why mentors should be something more than casual players that know general info about the game and the basics of the three roles.
The thing is, there's nothing in this game that certifies your skill except for (current) savage and ultimate achievements, but that's probably a bit too much to ask of mentors.

From the start there were no set policies on what was expected of a mentor in both action and behavior. No overseers assigned to make sure their group of mentors met certain goals and guidelines. No real qualifications were ever put in place other than comms and having an expected level achievements. No test of one's knowledge and ability before becoming a mentor. No great incentive to work towards.

Just throw a group of people in one large linkshell and let the pot boil is what it's come down to. Not only are there a bunch of mentors who's behavior is toxic, but this sets a bad example for those upcoming novice who may one day become mentors themselves.

They need to scrap this so called mentor program that's become a cesspool as it stands. Maybe start smaller groups of mentors, and not put everyone in one large linkshell. Find a way to separate the good from the bad. Yes and have one Senior mentor oversee their one smaller group. Maybe make an app for filling out weekly requirements by mentors and those that don't meet those requirement risk losing their status as mentor. Give better incentives for being a mentor. Reward for good behavior and stop rewarding for bad behavior as well. There are many things they could do to make this program far better than what it is.

The community has shown countless times that it cannot police itself

MMO communities are more than capable of policing themselves and have been for decades.

Developers just realized its easier to design workarounds to game elements that required people to not be donkeys, and monetize server, race, and name changes to further allow people to separate themselves from their actions. Thus, you get more nonsense and less of a way for the community to dictate what it feels acceptable. We all know someone with stories that start "I had to move servers / realms / datacenters / clusters / realm groups / ect because of something I did".

There's only one realistic "fix" for the Mentor system as it stands right now, and that's man-hours.

To ensure that everyone only ever has perfect experiances with unfailing polite and informative Mentors, SE would have to have a dedicated GM team whose sole purpose was to monitor Mentors and deal with each and every accusation of abuse of the system. They'd have to personally check each and every sprout complaint, reading tickets and checking chat logs by hand, because there's no computer program on Earth sophisticated enough to determine tone and intent in human speech patterns. It would be such a resource sink that SE might as well just hire and pay people to be Mentors.

Because no matter what kind of requirements or restrictions they put on the system, no matter what hoops players have to go through to become Mentors, people are only human. There would still cases where an otherwise 'perfect' Mentor had a particularly lousy day, had enough of some pants-on-head stupid sprout and snaps.

And then there would still be these exact same "Mentors r tha DEVIL!!1!" threads. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

The vote kick button is great for those toxic players but since you want constructive criticism, here's a thought.

Thanks a lot for your answer. I noticed an interesting tendency. Unlike other games in FF 14, players do not kick a player who behaves inappropriately. They prefer to remain silent and suffer for 15-20 minutes in order to finish the dungeon faster, instead of looking for replacement.

Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

Is it perfect? No. A mentor can merely leave the instance before anyone can vote and won't prevent premature departures as a result of someone not wanting to spend time in Ex primals or MSQ scenarios, not to mention Trolls can demerit you merely for their own enjoyment but at least there's something to dissuade Toxic Behaviors.

It would be nice if, at least, someone from the GM team was involved in mentor issues. You see, the main problem is indifference. A specialized reporting function, a separate reputation, and so on would probably help.

Originally Posted by Penthea

Too many have the crown because they want a mount and have no interest in being helpful.

This. Several times I met in groups beginners and mentors. Even when newcomers asked about tactics, most mentors were silent.

Originally Posted by Lastelli

That's why mentors should be something more than casual players that know general info about the game and the basics of the three roles.
The thing is, there's nothing in this game that certifies your skill except for (current) savage and ultimate achievements, but that's probably a bit too much to ask of mentors.

You can be a casual player, but good enough at the mechanics, IMO that’s all you need.

Originally Posted by Rymm

because there's no computer program on Earth sophisticated enough to determine tone and intent in human speech patterns.

Of course, the meaning and intonation of the some mentors words: "You are ***** idiot!" very hard to catch. They probably come from another planet where there are 365 bad days and their words should be interpreted the other way around. "Hello!" instead of "Morons!" and so on.

Originally Posted by RajNish

Of course, the meaning and intonation of the some mentors words: "You are ***** idiot!" very hard to catch. They probably come from another planet where there are 365 bad days and their words should be interpreted the other way around. "Hello!" instead of "Morons!" and so on.

Oh my goodness, aren't you just the cleverest little thing! Your mom must be so proud of you! Thank you ever so much for pointing out the obvious flaw in my post, I feel so silly for posting that whole thing now, lol. I mean, it's not like a bad Mentor would ever use sarcasm or backhanded complements to be toxic to sprouts. The only jerks we have to worry about are the obvious ones. You deserve a gold star for figuring that out all by yourself!

Originally Posted by Rymm

Oh my goodness, aren't you just the cleverest little thing! Your mom must be so proud of you! Thank you ever so much for pointing out the obvious flaw in my post, I feel so silly for posting that whole thing now, lol. I mean, it's not like a bad Mentor would ever use sarcasm or backhanded complements to be toxic to sprouts. The only jerks we have to worry about are the obvious ones. You deserve a gold star for figuring that out all by yourself!

In case it's not obvious, the above is my exhibit A to support the point I made in my first post.

I think of Mentors as "Helper" not "Teacher" and the demand how good a Mentor should be is at the moment ridiculous. It sounds more like the god of FF14 and not a human beeing.

I go into a duty and get The dancing Plague Extrem and People expect from me and the other Mentor in the Party to explain the Fight on the fly while the new Tank/whm/etc just pulls the boss. Also we have to explain job specific stuff for this encounter and we should be patient even when the encounter takes ages and atleast 4 people are not doing what is necessary for this kind of duty? The Mentors have to compensate and should not dare say anything because it could hurt the feelings of somebody. To tell people "sorry, your are not good enough with your actual performance to beat this encounter" is consindered offensive, abusive and bannable behavior.

I help People but i am not here to carry them through the duty. As a Mentor i met people that just ignor or tell to stop the mansplaining/ to destroy the immersion/any excuse you can think off. Then people highlight i can read/speak englisch but dont understand in the end not understand a single word in englisch. I could go on and on but you can see my point now.

Also i dont wear the Crown because of :
Mentor Crown on
- carrys the run/ gives advice - people complain/ignor/beeing rude
Mentor Crown off
- just not AFK - 4 comms

So when i am showing "Hey i am Mentor, i can help" some people think it's my duty to carry them and explain everthing also as a mentor many people encounter me with arrogance and disrespect in many ways.

The crown is referred as "Burger-King-Crown" and similar Name for a reason. This reason is the expaction and demand to fulfill these expactions. One side thinks that the Mentorstatus is just decoration others think its for the mount/title and other think its just for the ego/ its for carry service/its someone i can vent on/only Ultimate 99% player should have etc. and so on.

So the crown IS NOT THE PROBLEM NEITHER THAT MOUNT (be real that mount is nothing special and for that many dutys well earned) its the attitude towards the mentor status. The abuse comes from both sides.

In my opinion a Mentor is nothing but a expirenced player who can help but doesn't have to help. SE should put up a statement/clarification. Because i read so many "A Mentor is...." the community needs a final word from SE.

Originally Posted by Barraind

MMO communities are more than capable of policing themselves and have been for decades.

If that is the case then why do we regularly have threads with people complaining about mentors not even doing the bare minimum their role represents and sometimes even being rude? Why do people regularly say NN on their server is a disaster, and has been for years? If the community could police itself these complaints would be rare, not super common.

Originally Posted by Barraind

We all know someone with stories that start "I had to move servers / realms / datacenters / clusters / realm groups / ect because of something I did".

In my experience this only happens to people who end up causing enough crap to not only lose all their friends but also gain a status of notoriety that becomes known outside of their social circles. Most people do not end up in a situation like this either through luck or having enough sense to know when to tone it down for a while. This situation is an extreme, not the norm.