Mentors...please!

[Lersayil]

You make it seem like big pulls are hard...

Tanks aoe aggro generation is comically op and only requires the tank to spam a 2 hit combo. The healer can keep the tank alive just doing cure 2 and most dps have a simple 2-3 step aoe combo.

Most people learn this by level 30. That's why wall-to-wall pulls are the standard. Honestly, I don't even remember the last time I was in a party where the tank didn't do big pulls.

At this point, you're just trying to find excuses for players that don't read tooltips.

You would think so, but I still see some potatoes in 60+ content (not to mention 80 dungeons) that refuse to use aoe skills, tank cd's or just spams physick non stop. Wall-to-wall is the standard, but there are times (more often than I'd prefer) when party members fail to live up to it.

[RajNish]

You make it seem like big pulls are hard...
At this point, you're just trying to find excuses for players that don't read tooltips.

No, I'm just telling about the difference in situations and the ability to adapt, instead of blindly following the "standard". Here is an example. Holminster Switch. This is not a difficult dungeon, mobs there are just fat, but in my group there were two first timers: a WHM and SAM. The WHM did well, but panicked. The SAM had problems with rotation. Dancer tried very hard to be effective, but his efforts were clearly not enough. These people were not so bad or lazy. But for many reasons, they could not do everything as a group of experienced players would. Okay, it's really not a problem. I made small pulls to not to stress people, especially WHM, because the damage of the group was very small. An extra five or ten minutes will not change anything.

[Lastelli]

No, I'm just telling about the difference in situations and the ability to adapt, instead of blindly following the "standard". Here is an example. Holminster Switch. This is not a difficult dungeon, mobs there are just fat, but in my group there were two first timers: a WHM and SAM. The WHM did well, but panicked. The SAM had problems with rotation. Dancer tried very hard to be effective, but his efforts were clearly not enough. These people were not so bad or lazy. But for many reasons, they could not do everything as a group of experienced players would. Okay, it's really not a problem. I made small pulls to not to stress people, especially WHM, because the damage of the group was very small. An extra five or ten minutes will not change anything.

The reason why wall-to-wall is the standard is that most players can blindly follow it and be successful. You're just describing a bad run. You said it yourself, the damage was very low. The dps were bad, period. No amount of sugarcoating will change that. DPS literally have one job: do their aoe rotation. That's easy. You're just adapting to a bad group, not to a different situation. But a standard is not determined by the lowest common denominator.

[0xReki]

I don't care if it newbies or veterans in the group. If I have to use my invul skill in the first pull, or people pull more there will be no bigs pulls anymore. I can't risk it if people can't do their jobs.

I will pull more if I feel the group is ready for that.

[AmeliaVerves]

If I have to use my invul skill in the first pull

You should always use your invuln on the 1st big pull. It's super efficient and you will get at least one more use of the invuln during the dungeon for another big pull.




On the topic of big pulls: I always pull wall to wall when entering a dungeon, if it is smooth I just keep going, if we wipe for whatever reason I either try it one more time (depends on why we wiped) or I do smaller pulls from there on. Trying the 'standard' way first is not a big deal imo and if it fails it's also not the end of the world. Either adapt or if I am really unpatient or unpleased about the situation I might as well make use of the tools SE gave and opt out, taking the 30min penalty.
Noone is obligated to play with me and neither am I obligated to play with everyone, so I decide if I think it's worth to keep going or not. This goes for every situation one might consider unpleasing. Bad players, arrogant players, afk players, rude players, whatever. I don't consider myself toxic, but I also think I have the right to leave any situation that is not worth my time/effort and spend it with other things instead.

[Deceptus]

I don't care if it newbies or veterans in the group. If I have to use my invul skill in the first pull, or people pull more there will be no bigs pulls anymore. I can't risk it if people can't do their jobs.

As a PLD I use Hallowed Ground the first pull every dungeon I'm in because it allows the healer to keep doing damage. That makes it up for just after the 2nd boss where I can do it again.

Depending on your healers, DRKs can do it as well with Living Dead (with a WHM).

[SoranRigel]

As a PLD I use Hallowed Ground the first pull every dungeon I'm in because it allows the healer to keep doing damage. That makes it up for just after the 2nd boss where I can do it again.
Depending on your healers, DRKs can do it as well with Living Dead (with a WHM).

Are you not afraid that your Heal will have a heart attack after such tactics?

[Hash_Browns]

Are you not afraid that your Heal will have a heart attack after such tactics?

Why would taking 0 damage for 10 seconds give a healer a heart attack?
Although I disagree with this strat if you have a WHM. If you have a WHM you should wait until Holy no longer stuns the enemies, then you use HG.

[SoranRigel]

Why would taking 0 damage for 10 seconds give a healer a heart attack?
Although I disagree with this strat if you have a WHM. If you have a WHM you should wait until Holy no longer stuns the enemies, then you use HG.

I often observe amazing wars in the game: Tanks fight against the Heals, in raids Tanks fight against each other, everyone fight against everyone. And not a common goal.
I would not like to be with you in a group, sorry.

[RajNish]

I mean unless, since you are a lvl 80 SCH, you are running dungeons as a SCH and demanding the party go slow so single group pulls would be normal, for you, but thats still not THE normal.

SCH is perfectly balanced job that does not need to heal most of the time. And you, as an experienced player, of course, should know this. Therefore, you mistaken with the target, again.