Mentors...please!

[Thamorian]

Read the previous posts, please. This thread is not about reporting to GM’s, this thread is about people who are the mentors, but do not match their role.

Ok, in your own words, what should a mentor be?


Here's what I've said before over a year ago in another thread:

THIS IS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! This is so far off the mark that you are in China when you should be in New York!

SE did not make savage raiding a requirement to be a mentor. SE made mentor system to help low level players learn the game at a basic level. Basic rotations, general questions, and stuff like character config and system config. Novice Network is filled with new players still progressing through the game starting at level 1. The "New Adventurer" status is applied to all players who have less than 168 hours of play time and have not completed the quest The Far Edge of Fate, not players at end game raiding. Just because you have some twisted idea of what a mentor is supposed to be does not make it true.


No they aren't. The average mentor have the same gameplay skill as the non-mentor. You just have such a biased preconceived notion that mentors should be great at the game that when you run into a bad one, you notice the crown and take notice of it more. I'm sure you ran into a bunch of mentors who played just fine but you didn't notice they had a mentor crown on or you don't remember them because they played their role adequately so there was no noteworthy reason to remember them.

[Crescence]

Q: Mentor roulette is totally useless and needs rework
A: It certainly needs rework, but it certainly does help in filling spots for old contents. Mentors quitting isn't good, but without the roulette ppl would have to wait eternally before realizing that the content is pretty much impossible to get into without partyfinder/unsync.

Q: Then why need mount, just let people who actually want to help do it.
A: There's just not enough people, and reward attracts people. One important point is, it's not ALWAYS bad people who are attracted to rewards. Some people (many people) actually do their work and deserve the reward. The game is selling, we have more sprouts than ever, we need more than volunteers to keep these sprouts from waiting forever. I don't really understand why people have to be disdained just because they work for the sake of a reward. Generalization much.

Q: Some mentors are awful! They're not helping at all!
A: Bad luck. They might be impatient, they might simply have bad day, you might be the one having bad day that everyone looks toxic in your eyes, the party might be just way too horrible to cope with. Idk there's just way too many possibilities it's pretty much impossible to just assume that the person is simply "awful". You can't really do anything about that. That's just what community is. You don't always get awesome teachers in your school either.

Q: Mentors are always silent I don't even understand why they're even there.
A: I don't know how it is in NA and EU, but in JP servers speaking our your opinion comes with a risk. We answer when people ask, but aside from that, we get people accusing you for ruining their first-time fun, spoilers, belittling sprouts by saying that they're not ready (when they're actually not ready). Being proactive is called nosy. Being honest is called harassment. "Speaking out" isn't as easy as you think it is.


I might be an outlier here I'm actually doing the mentor roulette for the sake of the mount. I don't hate sprouts, I would try my best to explain whatever I know if people actually want to know (more skilled player = easier life after all). I don't really want to waste my time explaining things to people who don't really want to learn. Then again people who actually want to learn usually google everything themselves. Potential people don't really need mentors. People using NN are mostly people who don't really care about understanding the contents; they simply want the clear flag. Personally I don't understand how carrying these people could be considered "helpful". That's not my definition of "guiding". If there's anything people need to learn about the game, it's that they actually need to "want to learn" and "understand" to be better. The system doesn't support my definition, so I stopped caring.

Hope this opinion helps. Have a nice day.

[RajNish]

Thank you for your reply, but I see some controversial points here.

The game is selling, we have more sprouts than ever, we need more than volunteers to keep these sprouts from waiting forever.

And, after they receive their portion of toxicity, someone will tell them: "Bad luck. Simply bad day. You can't really do anything about that. That's just what community is".

Sorry, but... what? Seems, in this case they would prefer another game, where they can do at least something.

Being proactive is called nosy. Being honest is called harassment. "Speaking out" isn't as easy as you think it is.

Why you and all these people become a mentor if so intimidated? Why continue? There is nothing wrong with politely telling the truth. By the way, the words: "Sorry, but I'm not sure that we can do this without training" is not an insult. Do what you must, and come what may.

Then again people who actually want to learn usually google everything themselves.

You can watch the guide many times and understand nothing until you go through 3-10 wipes and understand how you dealing with mechanics and how your group dealing with it.

[SoranRigel]

A: There's just not enough people, and reward attracts people. One important point is, it's not ALWAYS bad people who are attracted to rewards. Some people (many people) actually do their work and deserve the reward. The game is selling, we have more sprouts than ever, we need more than volunteers to keep these sprouts from waiting forever. I don't really understand why people have to be disdained just because they work for the sake of a reward. Generalization much.

Don't consider me arrogant, but my gaming experience allows me to compare different gaming systems. In those games where no awards are relied upon to help newbies, I have seen much less toxicity. I can assume that authority, albeit expressed in symbols - an exclusive mount, achievements, a pixel crown, a honorary title "mentor" - has a negative impact on young immature minds.

The authority corrupt and gives a perceived sense of impunity, especially when there is a tacit indulgence of the existing order in the gaming community.

As has been repeatedly mentioned here, the absence of special awards or pixel crown in no way prevents the provision of assistance to newbies. But the aggressive resistance of those for whom this pixel crown is extremely important speaks eloquently for itself.

Help must be selfless. If this is not so, we get what we get: aggressive, toxic and not helping players who compensate for their own inferiority at the expense of others.

[SoranRigel]

No it doesn't. Again. No. It. Does. Not. That is flat out wrong. Correlation does not equal causation. If you want to try to prove that there being mentor achievements causes toxic mentors, you're gonna need to show some evidence.

Evidence is received by the GM when my party members regularly send reports. Unfortunately, the current “add to blacklist” system does not guarantee that I will not get into the dungeon with these people again. And no, your emotional statements and depreciation do not add credibility to your words.

[DynnDiablos]

Honestly, the mentors I've encountered have been some of the meanest players in the game.

[Banriikku]

I met many new players/sprouts that are disrespectfull, non communicativ, arrogant and destructiv. So what ? My personal expierence defines a whole group of people ?
The mount is not a reward for the mentor its for playing many dutys. All rewards need a lot of dutys.
Next thing is helping is voluntary. Its not a duty for mentor to help - the mentor can help if he wishes. No player can demand help. The viewpoint that a mentor have to help is absolut nonesense.
The argument with "mentor was mean" is a straw man argumemt and absolut unrelated to the mentor system. Toxic player are always toxic with or without such a title. Report such behavior - done.

[Banriikku]

Seems like reminder of what mentors are expected is needed.

So i read expected not have to. Maybe that picture is wrong or old but its exactly as i said. When you can provide help then do and be example of good behavior. Not you have to help if not you should be expelled and be punished.

[Tsalmaveth]

So can someone remind the SPROUTS to not respond with 'you don't pay my sub' to NOT IGNORE MENTORS WHEN TELLING THEM MECHANICS?

You all like to dunk on Mentors, bad mouth them, and whine... but do you think that mentors might be a tad fed up with the lazy and snide attitudes that have been running rampant from the other side of the fence as well? That a LOT of mentors have just stopped caring as a result of the rash of Sprouts that use jump potions and don't even ATTEMPT to learn their classes or expect the carry or want a 'how to' in the middle of a dungeon/mid-ex fight?

Please. This goes both ways and I'm tired of the constant 'Mentors are bad, WAAAAAAAH!' Saddle up and do your own homework before you just throw everything at the mentor system whole-sale.