Mentors...please!

[RajNish]

Oh my goodness, aren't you just the cleverest little thing! Your mom must be so proud of you! Thank you ever so much for pointing out the obvious flaw in my post, I feel so silly for posting that whole thing now, lol. I mean, it's not like a bad Mentor would ever use sarcasm or backhanded complements to be toxic to sprouts. The only jerks we have to worry about are the obvious ones. You deserve a gold star for figuring that out all by yourself!

Is healthy humor a crime? If so, I didn’t mean to hurt you. Thanks for your attention. Have a nice day!

It sounds more like the god of FF14 and not a human beeing.

I think you are exaggerating a little. It’s enough just not to be rude and help whenever possible.

I go into a duty and get The dancing Plague Extrem and People expect from me and the other Mentor in the Party to explain the Fight on the fly while the new Tank/whm/etc just pulls the boss. Also we have to explain job specific stuff for this encounter and we should be patient even when the encounter takes ages and atleast 4 people are not doing what is necessary for this kind of duty? The Mentors have to compensate and should not dare say anything because it could hurt the feelings of somebody. To tell people "sorry, your are not good enough with your actual performance to beat this encounter" is consindered offensive, abusive and bannable behavior.

When you opened mentor roulette, did you know where you could go? However, this is not the problem. The problem is the lack of communication.

I have never been in a group that makes The dancing Plague Extrem via Dutyfinder. However, in the usual trial roulettes, several times, where the group had one or two mentors, I saw the comments "Oh my God!" and "Don't waste time!" after the first wipe. Thanks to those who at least left in silence. All these people didn’t even put marks, but they expected that the group, where 4-6 beginners, would do everything right without any help or hint.

My first Titania was late at night. My co-healer was a mentor. This player has done everything possible to successfully complete. He/she put marks, showed people where to stand. I am very grateful to this kind person for a great game. Now, after several Titania runs, I understand that this player was an exception.

[Alaeacus]

This stupid complain about mentors its just ridiculus. For some reason people think that mentors should have 100% knowledge of every encounter, job ,side quest ,end game content and be a godamn 100 percentile parser.

Nah. People just expect Mentors to have Jesus-levels of patience and masochism to stay with failing parties for hours, maintaining a smile and absolute moral countenance.

add a Demerit system.

Ha! No. Day 1 you will have players giving demerits to others because someone's DPS was not high enough for their standards, a Tank missed aggro on one mob, or a Healer let someone die once. It would be an absolute sheetshow.

[RajNish]

Nah. People just expect Mentors to have Jesus-levels of patience and masochism to stay with failing parties for hours, maintaining a smile and absolute moral countenance.

You're dramatizing. If you bother to read the beginning of the thread, you will see what is at stake.
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w...Novice_Network

Mentors are veteran players who chose to offer their time and experience to help guide new adventurers. To facilitate their assistance, mentors will gain access to a special chat channel as well as a means to easily register for duties and trials with new players.

As a mentor you are expected to actively perform the following:

Provide gameplay advice for new adventurers and other players.
Be an exemplar for player etiquette.
Invite new adventurers to the Novice Network and answer their queries in the chat channel.

But if you consider this a masochism, then, unfortunately, there is nothing to be done.

[Alaeacus]

You're dramatizing. If you bother to read the beginning of the thread, you will see what is at stake.
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w...Novice_Network

Mentors are veteran players who chose to offer their time and experience to help guide new adventurers. To facilitate their assistance, mentors will gain access to a special chat channel as well as a means to easily register for duties and trials with new players.

As a mentor you are expected to actively perform the following:

Provide gameplay advice for new adventurers and other players.
Be an exemplar for player etiquette.
Invite new adventurers to the Novice Network and answer their queries in the chat channel.

But if you consider this a masochism, then, unfortunately, there is nothing to be done.

Nope, not dramatizing at all based on one simple point:

"Be an exemplar for player etiquette."

This one simple, but vague, rule that you have chosen to outline is interpreted one-thousand different ways by players. Players have their own internal interpretation for what the words "Exemplar" and "Etiquette" mean, and these players force their own interpretations onto Mentors. If Mentors don't live up to a player's standards, they come to the forums and throw a hissy-fit against the Mentor system.

It's SE's fault for writing such a terribly vague statement in a rule set without defining terms, and it's the player's fault for expecting Mentors to act like Mother Theresa. An exemplar for one culture is vastly different than an exemplar for another. Etiquette is VASTLY different across cultures. There are NO universal truths for what an exemplar, or good etiquette, actually means.

If you think everyone around you should uphold and abide by the standards of etiquette that you personally find important, than you have already lost at life.

[RajNish]

There are NO universal truths for what an exemplar, or good etiquette, actually means.

You are mistaken, again. I don’t know how long you have been playing games, so I’ll put another link for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaming_etiquette

Universal gaming etiquette

In most games, players are generally encouraged to be polite and courteous to one another, and avoid excessive profanity and trash talk. Players are also expected to be friendly and welcoming to newcomers, (generally referred to as newbies, or the somewhat more derogative terms Noob or N00b) and remember that their lack of skill or understanding of the game is only due to their lack of experience with the game. Taking a new player "under their wing" so to speak is also considered a form of courtesy. It's also a generally accepted rule that a game's events and outcomes shouldn't be taken personally by the players.

[Alaeacus]

You are mistaken, again. ... so I’ll put another link for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaming_etiquette

Lol. I love how you consider a wiki article written by an anonymous author to be some sort of data driven consensus across the entire world of gamers. If your definition were so "universal", than we wouldn't have such a widespread problem with toxicity in the gaming world. Not so "universal" now is it? There has, to date, likely been no dissent on that wiki page simply because very few people even care to add or refine it. It's not a statement of FACT, so nobody can refute it.

But go ahead. Keep using generalized ideas held by a few people as a blanket statement as some universal truth (I suspect you don't even know what the term "universal truth" means).

P.S. Your own wiki doesn't work as throughout this entire thread, people are guilty of conflating and intertwining "gaming etiquette" with "moral human etiquette".

P.P.S. A page from your own book:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_of_Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe...ral_disclaimer

P.P.P.S.

I don’t know how long you have been playing games

Long enough to know that complaining about how other people play a game is naive, futile, and childish. You'll have better luck standing in a river and screaming at it to change its direction.

[RajNish]

Not so "universal" now is it? There has, to date, likely been no dissent on that wiki page simply because very few people even care to add or refine it. It's not a statement of FACT, so nobody can refute it.

But go ahead. Keep using generalized ideas held by a few people as a blanket statement as some universal truth (I suspect you don't even know what the term "universal truth" means).

P.S. Your own wiki doesn't work as throughout this entire thread, people are guilty of conflating and intertwining "gaming etiquette" with "moral human etiquette".

A good attempt to get away from the original topic and go on to discuss my knowledge of philosophy. Don’t worry, please, I remember the university course well enough. You initially raised the question incorrectly.

Several generations of players have grown up on a simple game system. Be polite, help others and work for the success of the group. As you see, it is not necessary to be Mother Teresa (by the way, I suspect you have not read criticism of her actions in the context of human rights). So yes, you don’t have to be Mother Teresa.

And, finally, with regard to the difference of cultures. This is again an incorrect comparison, since we are currently speaking in the paradigm of game culture, or rather, subculture.

This thread is not showing an illustration, it's showing an illusion, a few loud mouths who complain loudly because they met one bad mentor who left an impression and their friends told them or they read that all mentors are bad, giving a magnifying effect. You never notice or remember the good mentors. Human nature to more easily remember a negative experience.

If the systems worked well, you would not see an increase in the number of recommendations, as an attempt to fix it. Be the first to create a thread for thanks, and I will write there. At the moment I'm talking about the problem, I will write here because I consider it necessary and important, whether you like it or not.

[Kenky]

You are mistaken, again. I don’t know how long you have been playing games, so I’ll put another link for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaming_etiquette

While I am sure plenty of people would prefer to be courteous and polite..

Well, we all know there's plenty of games and communities outside of gaming as a whole that at as far from "polite" as theoretically possible. Not everyone that plays games are going to hold their tongue, if something upsets them and what upsets them can be a multitude of things varying from "understandable" to something so minute, so inconsequentially small, that the general populace would deem it stupid or idiotic to let it get under your skin.

FFXIV, while it does have its rougher sides sometimes, is more on the "understanding" and "polite" side of the spectrum. But that's not because our mentors are good or altruistic. In fact, most of the people that are nice and understanding to new players aren't even Mentors, nor do they have any motivation to BECOME Mentors, purely because of the stigma that surrounds that crown icon.

On Mateus (from personal view and experience, that is.) people ignore or shun Mentors, purely because the majority of them (again from experience) are egotistic and demand everything be done to THEIR specifications, or claim that everyone but them are insignificant and worthless, to the point of them leaving the duty. Unable to bring themselves to "Waste their time on newbs like us".

Giving help when its asked is all one can really do. If people don't ask for help, then don't shove it in their face. You don't need a crown to do that. But I can understand that not everyone plays games to help others out. Plenty play to vent their anger, to get away from stresses.

[Gula]

Is healthy humor a crime? If so, I didn’t mean to hurt you. Thanks for your attention. Have a nice day!

How dare you try to crack a smile on the internet!