Mentors...please!

[RajNish]

If you meet these "weird ppl" that often, then there's also chance that you're just that bad that ppl can't help getting angry at you. And no please don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to be a****** or anything, but it's definitely my personal experience. Some ppl are just THAT bad. I don't know how it is in your case, but if you meet such people THAT often, you might need to revisit the Hall of Novice for your own sake, too.

You said what you said. No worries and many thanks for your care. But, again, this is not about me and my skills. I'm talking about a system which works so bad.

That is something to consider: Mentors can 'help' and give 'advice'... but they are not there to 'carry' or 'literally teach you how to play' past a particular point.

They are just taking the easy road, leaning back and being like "well, mentors have to explain to me, so I don't have to do a thing and just wait for them to give the information to me".

Honestly, it would be nice to give an advice at least, instead of "Pads you dumbos!" or "Use your brain!" to first timers. Otherwise, why this status then? I hope these people at least stop being rude. Is it so much or impossible?

[DarkMasamune]

Honestly, it would be nice to give an advice at least, instead of "Pads you dumbos!" or "Use your brain!" to first timers. Otherwise, why this status then? I hope these people at least stop being rude. Is it so much or impossible?

I only came across one mentor that sounded like that since the system started, to be honest.

That being said, what Tsalmaveth said it absolutely right ; the game teaches you how to play. The basic commands are there. Read the tool tips and learn with what the game gives you. Mentors are there to help you, answer questions and give advices, not teach you the entre game one step at a time.

[RajNish]

I only came across one mentor that sounded like that since the system started, to be honest.

That being said, what Tsalmaveth said it absolutely right ; the game teaches you how to play. The basic commands are there. Read the tool tips and learn with what the game gives you. Mentors are there to help you, answer questions and give advices, not teach you the entre game one step at a time.

Sorry, but once again. I'm not talking about training. I am talking about the mentors unacceptable behavior. Or do you think that saying that the raid is failed because half of alliance was French is normal for a mentor? This is an example of what I heard from mentors.

[DarkMasamune]

Sorry, but once again. I'm not talking about training. I am talking about the mentors unacceptable behavior. Or do you think that saying that the raid is failed because half of alliance was French is normal for a mentor? This is an example of what I heard from mentors.

I got that many times, mentors or not. You gotta know that mentors are still people and sadly, some of them are a-holes. Just report them, there's not much more to be done.

[RajNish]

I got that many times, mentors or not. You gotta know that mentors are still people and sadly, some of them are a-holes. Just report them, there's not much more to be done.

I'm not sure there is nothing more to be done. Reporting will not change the situation, it is necessary to change or even delete the mentor's system. If the system allows abuse, justified by the mentor's status. As long as everyone is sitting and just looking at it, the mess will continue.

[Hatfright]

You know more than you think you do. Some of the most important things you learn leveling up all the jobs is how they interact with each other.

You've felt the pain as a healer of a tank who doesn't use a single defensive CD.

You've seen pulls take way too long because DPS refuse to use any aoe whatsoever.

You've seen healers who think their only job is to heal and not mitigate damage by helping kill mobs.

All of this knowledge you can pass on to other players.

While this is true, not so many people actually use that knowledge themselves, what to say about passing it to new players. Not once or twice I saw someone leveling one last tank or healer, who didn't knew basics of the roles. I mean, how can you level 3 tanks and not know they generate more agro when in "stance". And yet, there is people like that. Not telling it's mentors, but still.

The only thing that I feel might really be beneficial is rating mentor combat proficiency (ie can this mentor clear Savage)

I disagree. You can be hepful without working your axe off in savages. Some people just don't want to do that part of content for whatever reason, and thats totally fine imo.

Until they get rid of that terrible mentor roulette they will never fix the problem.
The idea of rewarding mentors for their efforts seems great at first but in the end what happens, what always happen, is you are forcing people to be mentors when they aren't suited for that to get their shiny mount.

This. People becoming mentors just for the sake of it and for mount is the worst.

I got that many times, mentors or not. You gotta know that mentors are still people and sadly, some of them are a-holes. Just report them, there's not much more to be done.

The thing is, most of the times reports don't do anything. You get the advise to BL them, but that ain't preventing you from meeting them in roulettes again, AFAIK. You just can't see what they're typing in chat, if at all. That's it. Attitude is still there.

[DarkMasamune]

The thing is, most of the times reports don't do anything. You get the advise to BL them, but that ain't preventing you from meeting them in roulettes again, AFAIK. You just can't see what they're typing in chat, if at all. That's it. Attitude is still there.

Yeah, I'm aware of that. The BL thing really isn't working as it should and reports aren't doing much. That's why I said there isn't much else to be done. People can be toxic, mentors or not, and building a system where no mentors would be toxic would be great, but I can't really see how this could be done (even thought it would be great, yeah).

[LineageRazor]

Sorry, but once again. I'm not talking about training. I am talking about the mentors unacceptable behavior.

DarkMasamune addressed this topic as well. One rude mentor. In six years of the Mentor system.

Rude and unpleasant mentors seriously aren't that common. Do they exist? Sure. I challenge you to come up with a Mentor selection system capable of keeping unpleasant people out. (Such a system would be SO useful in real life, too!) Bear in mind, you'd also need to fine-tune the system so it also keeps out Mentors who are usually nice, but might sometimes have a bad day. Your selection system must accept ONLY Mentors who are sunny and pleasant ALL THE TIME - otherwise the mentor system is TOXIC!!! (Or so one might gather by reading the various "A Mentor Ate Mah Baby!" threads that pop up here from time to time.) Regardless, mentors who are outright unpleasant people are pretty rare. Like all bad things, though, they tend to stick in one's mind a lot more than the good or average things do.

If you expand the definition of "unacceptable" to also include mentors who are simply unhelpful - well, that pool is much larger, I'll admit. And sometimes, being unhelpful is justified, if the group clearly does not need help. I've heard people complain about Mentors who remain silent throughout an entire dungeon run - but when asked if the run ran into any problems that needed mentoring, they admit that no, everything went smoothly.

This thread was about Expert Trials, though, and the mentors that abandon them. I agree that this is bad behavior - but I also think that the mentors who suggest the runs be done unsynced are giving good advice. Even if you're a player who wishes to be challenged by the old content (at least, as much as you actually can be, given the stacking Echo and overgearing), duty finder is a terrible way to get that buzz. For one thing, it takes forever to fill a party, even with mentor roulette helping out. Then you run into the OP's problem, of mentors who drop out without even trying, which will delay things even longer until enough tolerant mentors fill in to give the run a try.

It's MUCH better to use Party Finder, whether you plan on running the content synced or not, and if a Mentor gives this advice, they are doing good mentoring. Using party finder, you can find like-minded folks who are actually interested in doing the content in the way you wish to do it - and, more importantly, can do the run with you multiple times. Depending on the trial, it's often difficult to win an Extreme trial in a single one-hour session. You need several sessions of progress, and using Duty Finder, you're likely to end up with a whole new team each time you run it, many of whom may be unfamiliar with the fight to the point you're starting from scratch each and every time.

Even when these trials were relevant content in their prime, folks did not use Duty Finder to run them. Folks that use Duty Finder now, do so because they do not know any better. A mentor that educates them on their mistake is doing good work.

[RajNish]

Yeah, I'm aware of that. The BL thing really isn't working as it should and reports aren't doing much. That's why I said there isn't much else to be done. People can be toxic, mentors or not, and building a system where no mentors would be toxic would be great, but I can't really see how this could be done (even thought it would be great, yeah).

The BL system needs to be reworked. For example, in other games, if you add someone to the blacklist, you will no longer meet him in a random group. The base of FF 14 players is wide enough to form a random group with these parameters.

Moreover, I think that mentors should have their own reputation system, based not only on the number of recommendations. However, this implies that players must be proactive to report, not just silently leave, considering rudeness and insults as the norm.

DarkMasamune addressed this topic as well. One rude mentor. In six years of the Mentor system.

Thank you for your wit, it makes me smile. Let's first clarify who is a good mentor. And let's answer the question. Does bad mood, family problems, stressful work justify insulting people? If you think so, I see no reason to discuss further with you.

Before rushing into battle for a beautiful shiny mount, you had to read the terms of the contract. It's simple. Yes, in fact, you can get into the prog group with beginners. I know what prog group is, I was the leader of prog group in another game. But many people said about the player’s skills, if I’m not mistaken. If you have your skills, that's not a problem isn't it? Consequently, the reward goes to the worthy, and ... patient. Even if you’re tired and intend to leave, why not say: "Sorry, guys, I'm tired, let's call it." Such meek words for someone who knows the English alphabet enough to say "Hello!".

And finally. If this were a thread dedicated to people who really help, no matter what, I would write a laudatory ode to them. But here we talk about problems. And ofcourse, the passive aggression itself is a good and clear marker.

[Alaeacus]

I think some people expect Mentors to act like in-game SE Community Managers or SE Moderators. Mentors are not paid employees. Mentors should not have some strict job constraints forced upon them because other people expect them to act with a certain moral decorum.

There are bad Mentors and good Mentors. They chose to enter Mentor Roulette. So did you. Mentors should expect bad players. Players should expect bad Mentors. It's a two-way street. It's the risk both of you take. You want to place more penalties on Mentors? Get ready to never see your waiting queue pop in Mentor Roulette because nobody will tag themselves as Mentor. There is already barely any reward with roulettes.

There are bad tanks and there are good tanks. Should we start placing extra penalty on bad tanks because they aren't playing the game the way WE think they should be playing?

I'm not a Mentor, but I would rather be locked out of my roulettes for 24 hours than deal with a group of entitled, undergeared people in an Extreme giving me attitude if I suggest we Vote Abandon. Some people hold entire groups hostage because they refuse to Vote Abandon. If SE DOES decide to place a 24 hour penalty on Mentors who leave, I will never flag as Mentor. Simple cause and effect.

Keep in mind: A lot of us have 300 other Steam games that won't lock us out of content for being a "meanie". Player retention will always take a hit the more constraints, regulations, and barriers a developer places on content. Mentor Roulette can easily become a ghost town.