Mentors...please!

[RajNish]

and most people don't bother with it anymore

This. The commendation is not the parameter by which it is worth evaluating whether a player can be a mentor or not. But, unfortunately, we have neither a specific system nor parameters for this. Also, no one can say how many reports must be received so that the player ceases to be a mentor. All this is not clear and too confusing.

People who want to learn mechs for every dungeon, raid, trial, etc. there is at least a few on just about every server im sure, so maybe try that?

Yes, that’s a very good idea. At the moment, I play with several people I know. This greatly reduces the chance of meeting strange people in a group of 4 players at least. But to be honest, I am not very happy about voluntary isolation.

[Wiccan692015]

Yes, that’s a very good idea. At the moment, I play with several people I know. This greatly reduces the chance of meeting strange people in a group of 4 players at least. But to be honest, I am not very happy about voluntary isolation.[/QUOTE]

I know what you mean about voluntary Isolation, but sadly its the only way to guarantee that you are getting a group of smart people who listen and help each other to learn the content properly without interference from people who think they know everything but they really know not much at all about anything and slow others down......

[RajNish]

I know what you mean about voluntary Isolation, but sadly its the only way to guarantee that you are getting a group of smart people who listen and help each other to learn the content properly without interference from people who think they know everything but they really know not much at all about anything and slow others down......

Right. You have very accurately said. I have nothing more to add.

Even tho I am not the most social person and usually stay for myself, I think this community in general is very polite and helpful. Most people at least try to help or guide you somewhere you might find help/information.

Up to 50 lvl, maybe. But on 70 the strange begins. Here is an example. Ala Mhigo. Tank mentor, in the group, there are two newcomers. And it is clear that they have no idea what to do. He takes a large pool, but the DPS is very low. Wipe. Here it would be nice to stop, explain tactics and go more carefully. But he again makes a large pool without saying a word.

Is it toxic? I think yes. He does not care about the group. All he wants is to quickly finish the dungeon and get out of there. Although, as a mentor, he could just slow down a bit, put marks at least. It seems to be nothing offensive, right? But his actions are completely selfish and he does not care what happens to the group. There is absolutely nothing to write a report on. It's his choice. But this does not combine with the concepts of "helpful" and "etiquette".

Help can be completely different. Not so long ago, I met a player who, it seemed to me, was trying to help and gave advice on how to increase DPS. But before the last boss pool, he said that none of the group deserved his recommendation. What for? This is not something that can encourage people to learn their job better.

The negative things you just mentioned are generally frowned upon by every sub-comm this game has, but you always find a few bad apples. Doesn't mean it's fair to generalize that much.

In fact, I judge the repeatability of such actions. This does not mean that I have not met good mentors and players. And, as I said above, I am very grateful to these people. But, unfortunately, there was more sad experience. Pulls ahead of the tank, ignoring the mechanics, trolling. Why then wear a crown? After all, they spoil not only their reputation.

[AmeliaVerves]

Is it toxic? I think yes. He does not care about the group. All he wants is to quickly finish the dungeon and get out of there. Although, as a mentor, he could just slow down a bit, put marks at least. It seems to be nothing offensive, right? But his actions are completely selfish and he does not care what happens to the group. There is absolutely nothing to write a report on. It's his choice. But this does not combine with the concepts of "helpful" and "etiquette".

I do not think this behaviour is toxic. Being silent, is neither rude nor toxic nor abusive or anything.
If someone in the group had a question or wanted help, they could have asked as well. Unsolicited advice is most of the times answered with unfriendly comments or ignored completely, so I definetly understand why mentors/players just don't talk and rather have others figure out stuff on their own.
You can be helpful and have etiquette when being approached and asked something. No mentor should feel compelled to move out of their way and push their advice or help onto someone. Funny enough a lot of times ppl complain about 'too pushy' mentors that want them to play their way and are forcing 'their playstyle' onto others. lmao

In the end this is just a difference of opinion, but claiming someone who remains silent is toxic is... well, obv SE does not find this toxic so you cannot report it and I agree with this sentiment.



You don't know about these mentors that stay silent. Maybe they did give unsolicited advice before and got toxic sprouts that got angry about being 'told how to play' instead of being left so they could find out on their own? There are bad apples on both sides so I find it rather close-minded to claim it's only ever mentors who are at fault.

[Neoom]

Up to 50 lvl, maybe. But on 70 the strange begins. Here is an example. Ala Mhigo. Tank mentor, in the group, there are two newcomers. And it is clear that they have no idea what to do. He takes a large pool, but the DPS is very low. Wipe. Here it would be nice to stop, explain tactics and go more carefully. But he again makes a large pool without saying a word.

First of all, there is no ''tactics'' to normal big pulls in dungeons. Second of all, every mentor who remains silent has learned it the hard way, people go out of their way to yell back at you when you helped without being asked. So after it keeps happening, they learn to wait so people ask for help, since then they want it. Most times unwanted help gets bad mouthing from people. Sure they could have said ''If you need help ask'' but people need to learn how. to. ask. HELP.

[SoranRigel]

Player X starts talking aloud about a problem that worries many people (watch the discussion first, with all links), and says he just wants to play quietly.
Player Y: "I say your are selfish, i say you are elitist".

A fine example of toxicity, really.

[SoranRigel]

You were talking about silence tho.
We can argue wether or not that mentor was a dumb dumb for pulling too much, but being not very smart and being toxic are two very different things.

If you want to make foolishness report-able, ok, well, idk, but you just assumed this mentor was toxic and had selfish intentions, but you don't know for sure. Still disagree to this being toxic tho.
Becoming a mentor has nothing to do with your skill tho. You don't need to be a good player to become a mentor and while I think this is a problem, idk how this problem could be solved any other way than making savage clears a requirement. But then again rAiDeRs ArE tOxIc AnD eLiTiSt.

Did you really see just that? In this case, I understand why in this discussion it is customary to ignore the proof and turn uncomfortable examples inside out.

This dishonest discussion technique is called “pushing back the gate": no matter what evidence you are presented with, your bar of "convincing evidence" will arbitrarily shift. It has already been repeatedly.

Someone in this thread asked me to provide evidence that the recommendation system needs to be reformed. I quoted the same player in another topic, where she admits that she gives recommendations for beautiful glamor, completely not paying attention to how much this person knows the content.
For this proof, I was called a "stalker", although the discussion was just next door.

[AmeliaVerves]

Did you really see just that?

The thing is, everything that came after was pure assumption. He doesn't know anything of why the mentor acted the way he did. Maybe he just didn't know better.
As I said before: you do not need to be anywhere near decent in skill to become a mentor and just because the person kept going without talking doesn't mean it was a bad intention. In that very example I do not see anything toxic going on.
Yes, it was heckin stupid to keep pulling big but idk what to tell you. I main healers ever since HW, but I can't heal stupid and neither can SE. Kick the tank or leave the dungeon and move on, ppl are dumb sometimes and no system in the world will ever prevent this lmao.

Assuming someones intentions or train of thought is no evidence tho and it shouldn't be treated as that. idk about your example, I didn't read everything in this thread, so I'd rather not comment on that. I agree the commendation system is useless tho and I am 100% indifferent about SE changing, removing or keeping it. I simply couldn't care less since it has 0 value.

[RajNish]

You were talking about silence tho.
We can argue wether or not that mentor was a dumb dumb for pulling too much, but being not very smart and being toxic are two very different things. If you want to make foolishness report-able, ok, well, idk, but you just assumed this mentor was toxic and had selfish intentions, but you don't know for sure. Still disagree to this being toxic tho.

If a person has completed the content enough to have 460 IL, he is definitely not dumb. And if a person at the same time continues to to stress the group, it is toxic.

But then again rAiDeRs ArE tOxIc AnD eLiTiSt.

I did not say that. As mentioned above, I was a raider in another game. And, according to the experience of raiding, such people were simply kicked out of the group. Do you know why? Just because they easily fail the raid, acting selfishly.

Here is an example. We had a guy with an extremely high DPS in previous game, and in the last fight, with several bosses, where all DPS need to stop at 40% of the boss HP (this is the mechanics that he was explained in detail), he intentionally continued to beat boss, simply because "He’s cool". The next day he was not in the team, because his actions were toxic and did not correspond to group task.

[AmeliaVerves]

If a person has completed the content enough to have 460 IL, he is definitely not dumb. And if a person at the same time continues to to stress the group, it is toxic..

I gotta be honest: you can be whatever ilvl and still have less IQ than a rock. If you are capable of breathing and play long enough you will eventually have enough commendations and classes leveled to become a mentor. It doesn't mean this applies to all mentors tho and I truly believe some are really nice ppl and honestly want to help.

The next day he was not in the team, because his actions were toxic and did not correspond to group task.

I agree to this decision and would have done the same. But the circumstances are somewhat different since it was a premade group that came together and actively decided and chose to play together, right? I find it hard to apply the same rules for DF content like dungeons, but as I said before: SE accepts 'difference in playstyle' as a valid reason to kick someone, so ppl should make use of that system in those cases.