FFXIV is just FFTA from the other perspective

[Brightamethyst]

And the only reason we're not rooting for the Ascians is because we're not playing as one.

Final Fantasy Tactics Advance is about a group of people who watched the entire world magically change around them. The main character had to fight against everyone else, including some other people from the 'old world' who like the new one better, in order to make it all go back to normal. He had to become the villain in order to do what he knew was right.

FFXIV is basically just FFTA told from Mewt/Ritz/Cid's perspective. The only difference between Marche and Emet Selch is that we're not playing as an Ascian.

[Elladie]

I completely agree with this.

But prepare yourself to be harangued by a number of people who remain convinced that 'good' and 'evil' are absolutes and that we represent the former whilst the Ascians are entirely the latter. Similarly Zodiark is entirely evil, according to them, whilst Hydaelyn is entirely good.

I wonder how much the writers regret using the darkness metaphor for the Ascians initially since it plays so much into the hands of the absolutists. I guess they did their best to show us 'Light as evil' in ShB but an age-old trope is still an age-old trope.

[RicaRuin]

Well, only that FFTA didn't include the main characters causing a genocide. The world does vanish, yes, but it's heavily hinted at that it's still there somehow. And it most likely didn't kill anyone, as every inhabitant of the 'other' Ivalice was just one of the townsfolk of the 'true' Ivalice with twisted memories and race. (For example, you encounter the names of the students from the snowball fight Prologue on different enemies.)

[Enkidoh]

Also, the new world wasn't a fantasy story conjured up by a magical tome like FFTA's one was - in FFXIV the Source and the Shards were just the original Star of the Ancients split into fourteen copies with new life created in the aftermath of the Terminus that virtually ruined to the point of destruction the old world - FFTA on the other hand was basically the old trope of 'kids from the real world end up in a fantasy land and have adventures', with the 'real world' (with a very reconizably contemporary Earth setting for the 'real world' with things such as modern cars, TVs, protagonists wearing Japanese sailorfuku and even the FF series itself refered to as an actual video game in-universe!) turned into an FF world, so the juxtapostion of it's narrative with FFXIV doesn't quite work.

There are certain similar thematic ideas (after all, FFXIV features an entire Ivalice-themed set of raids), but FFXIV's narrative really isn't the same as FFTA's told from the 'villain's perspective'.

[Alleo]

I never played FFTA but did their decision in that game also include killing billions of real people and later sacrifcing their souls to a false god? I honestly read a summary and it sounds nothing like FF14. The biggest difference: FFTA was playing in a dream world, while FF14 is in the real world. Of course its easier to destroy something which is truly not real which in turn seemingly also saved those that got pulled into it. In FF14 the Ascians simply cant accept that their time is over and that the world has gone on.

The funny thing is: We once were an Ancient too and probably the 14th member. And yet even though we lived in that world and were part of the leaders of Amaurotine we still did not want to be part of the Zodiark plan. And other Ancient ones also were against the future plans of the Ascians..so much that they call this the first true conflict that their race had and that they called Hydaelyn to go against them.

So sorry "we" once were looking at it from their side and "we" even lived through that and still decided to go against them. Maybe because killing who knows how many new lifes to maybe get old life back (who sacrificed themselves on their own free will) is just bad? At that time they simply could have stopped and those that survived it all could have rebuilt their homes. The planet would be whole and the souls not shattered. But no the Ascians needed more. Could not accept the sacrifice either thanks to their tempering or maybe because of their inability to go on. And thus in the end the planet was split and their race gone.

I wonder how much the writers regret using the darkness metaphor for the Ascians initially since it plays so much into the hands of the absolutists. I guess they did their best to show us 'Light as evil' in ShB but an age-old trope is still an age-old trope.

Its not even the darkness metaphor. Its them being people that are laughing at destruction and death they have created. Building whole empires for the sole reason of causing another rejoining and thus genocide. Its Emet saying how he sees us as not alive (yet makes children with us..)..its not just a metaphor, its their whole actions. If they showed regret in doing it...but no Lahabrea loves it. He laughs when Bahamut is free to slaughter the world.

Its also kinda funny since Yoshida stated in an interview after the release of the expansion that people should not forget that the Ascians and Emet killed millions of people. He also pointed out that some are way too fast to fully believe Emets side of the story and thus see Hydealyn as bad and that we should wait until we get her view on it. I could be wrong but that does sound like we will get more reasons on why this is the right and good thing.

[Deusteele]

Do you make the Reddit thread about this exact same thing? Cuz, I'm just gonna steal my comment from there.

If you cover your ears and squint real hard, sure. But beyond broad strokes in their respective goals they are worlds apart in methods and intentions.

Emet's obsession with returning the world back to the state it was in requires generations of suffering and genocide. He's forever trapped in the past and unwilling or unable to change. He's far closer to Mewt in concept, running away from reality and into a fantasy of his own devising.

Marche starts embittered due to the damage that Doned's treatments have costed him. He grows to looking towards the future and wants to help his new friends face their problems.

Emet-Selch and his merryband are exactly like Mewt. Believing that they are right by virtue of position. They have the power and will to force everyone else to dance to their tune and pay their dues with others coin. They are running away and hiding from the consequences of the choices that brought them to where we are. Exactly like Mewt/Ritz/Doned. They have solved NOTHING, and blame others for everything. That makes them the villain.

Marche never even bothered to cover his actions in a garb of idealism. He saw the truth the entire time. Ivalice was constructed by four children as a escapism from reality. He recognized the danger of this moment he saw what Mewt and Doned had become. Does Marche ever try to claim at being a hero? No, he knows what he does will cost, but faces that knowing that a harsh reality is far better for everyone then a false paradise.

We need look no further then the actions of Zodiark's followers. The Ascians lie to others, coerce, steal, genocide all other life that doesn't fit to their personal ideologies. Contrast that against those empowered by Hydaelyn. The WoL's themselves have been shown across every shard trying to make a better life for everyone. They stumble, fall and even get lead astray, often by actions of Ascians, but do they blame others for their personal failures?

It's not about Dark. It's not about Light. It's about facing the truth. We had an ENTIRE expansion about lying to others and lying to oneself. And yet when a biased, genocidal maniac tells you one side of a very complex story, players forgot all the lessons presented in HW and blindly believe in Emet-Selch's tale.

[Cilia]

As has been stated repeatedly by the developers, the world of XIV is NOT a preexisting one.

The thematic similarities and boatload of references to previous titles are duly noted, but until this is contradicted by the developers the world of XIV is not a past, future, or alternate version of any other Final Fantasy's world (and I will call shenanigans if they go that route). It's its own thing.

[Brightamethyst]

Of course its easier to destroy something which is truly not real which in turn seemingly also saved those that got pulled into it. In FF14 the Ascians simply cant accept that their time is over and that the world has gone on.

Which is exactly how the Ascians see the situation. To them the current world and the people in it aren't real, and destroying it will bring the real world and all the real people back.

[SannaR]

Which is exactly how the Ascians see the situation. To them the current world and the people in it aren't real, and destroying it will bring the real world and all the real people back.

Sure if you ignore the whole fact they're tempered. For all we know they got instantly tempered right after they summoned Zodiark. If they were then how would they know that the want of bringing back those who willingly gave up their lives plan isn't actually their idea, but Zodiark goin heeey I can get them to give me more stuff if i tell em I can totes bring their friends back. Like they seriously come off as a bunch of people who went yay our world is saved, but we don't know how to grieve properly so we felt it'd be fine to kill even more of the survivors and the new life. All because they just wanted their friends back cause I guess they mean more to them than those who were still alive.? So sure this world doesn't seem like the "real" world to those who couldn't even accept the one they were given presundering.

[Cilia]

To get more to the point, the theme of XIV thus far has not been one of accepting a harsh reality / truth over comfortable lies. It's mostly been about letting go of the past and moving forward, despite the pain that can bring; every antagonist is driven, on some level, by a past slight they refuse to let go of or forgive, while the main motivation of the protagonists is to create a better future for everyone.

One need look no further than Emet-Selch / Hades to see this; he is the culmination and (to a degree) final boss of the Hydaelyn / Zodiark conflict arc, driven entirely by his desire to recreate the past. He is called out on this by the protagonists at the climax of Shadowbringers and doesn't offer a rebuttal.