ADD GLAMOUR EFFECTS SETTINGS

[Aurida]

It's not as if I've got a horse in the race here since I don't think I've ever actually willingly looked at another player character to see what they were wearing, but it's just an option, right? Having other people have the option to change what they look at and see would affect you personally just about not at all.

Don't get me wrong- I 'get' glamour and self expression and in fact most of my posts are in favor of that the current system of job-based glamour restrictions renders the system incomplete, but arguing against the option to tailor the game's appearance to your own needs comes off as a little...

Well, where SHOULD your ability to self-express be limited by someone else's to not see it? If it's a setting that only affects them, client-side, and you'd never know that they see you personally wearing the RDM AF4 instead of your actual red mage glamour, then what's it change?

[Iscah]

Well, where SHOULD your ability to self-express be limited by someone else's to not see it? If it's a setting that only affects them, client-side, and you'd never know that they see you personally wearing the RDM AF4 instead of your actual red mage glamour, then what's it change?

But you won't "never know" that someone is seeing you like that. Or rather, if the option is there, then you are always aware that someone might be using it. You don't know if one particular person is or not, but anyone could be.

I dislike the concept of character appearance mods, for the same reason.

I'm not keen on the sillier outfits either, but if it's the trade-off for guaranteeing (at least at an official level) that my character will always be presented as I intend then to be - along with respecting what others want to wear - then so be it.

[Lambdafish]

But you won't "never know" that someone is seeing you like that. Or rather, if the option is there, then you are always aware that someone might be using it. You don't know if one particular person is or not, but anyone could be.

And so what if they are? Why is your right to wear the glamour you want any different from that players right to glamour the world and its inhabitants the way they want? Them changing things on the client-side doesn't affect your game experience in the slightest. Nobody is asking you to remove your glamour, they are asking for client side QoL.

I initially thought this thread was a troll, but the more I thought about the specific request, I realised how harmless it is. Sure OP, why not, I'd be all for an immersion mode even I would never use it.

I wouldn’t want someone changing my glamour because they’re my preference. I wouldn’t try changing theirs, so I ask them to please respect mine. If they don’t want to look at my glamours, then find other people to play with? That’s about all I can suggest.

You make it sound like they are forcing you and everyone who looks at you to experience the "changed" glamour. This QoL hurts nobody and allows players to play the way they want. The only person not being respectful is you, by telling them they have to play with other people rather than request a harmless game improvement.

[Iscah]

Nobody is asking you to remove your glamour...

No, they would not be "asking". They would be taking it off whether I agreed or not.

My character has appeared on their screen. They have changed what she is wearing. I have not had a say in it. Whether I can see that they have done so is irrelevant.

How my character is presented to others is just as important to me as how it is presented to myself.

The only person not being respectful is you, by telling them they have to play with other people rather than request a harmless game improvement.

You can turn this argument whichever way you like.

I can say it's more respectful to ensure that people are seen how they want to be seen. Ignoring their preference is disrespectful.

You can say it's more respectful to let people choose what they want to see, even if that means another person('s character) is not seen how they chose. Making them see things they don't like is disrespectful.

Who can prove which is the more important right?

Evidently it comes down to how you see the world and what you place more value on. But I would much rather "let others be" and have them let me be in return, than have others be able to change what my character wears because they're offended by some people's outfits and think they shouldn't be allowed to wear it.

[HyoMinPark]

You make it sound like they are forcing you and everyone who looks at you to experience the "changed" glamour. This QoL hurts nobody and allows players to play the way they want. The only person not being respectful is you, by telling them they have to play with other people rather than request a harmless game improvement.

This is an MMO. It’s not a single player game. If people dislike crazy glamours, that’s their preference—but they can’t make anyone adhere to their standards of “appropriate, immersive dress”. There are far better things development time can be spent on rather than an option to remove other players’ individuality. Crazy glamours don’t hurt anyone. If they dislike it, they don’t have to stay in parties where it’s present. Simple as that. Unless you’d rather me suggest they kick the offender because they’re mad they aren’t in a subligar and ovenmitts?

Call it disrespect if you want, even though I disagree. As I said, I would respect their glamour options even if I thought they were strange; they should respect mine as well. Let my character wear what she wants and stop caring so much about it. I swear that crazy glamours don’t hurt anyone.

[Lambdafish]

but they can’t make anyone adhere to their standards of “appropriate, immersive dress”.

You'll have to break this down for me, how are they making you adhere to their standard? You can still wear whatever you like and enjoy your glamour, nobody is asking you to stop doing that. Players who don't use the immersive option would still be able to see and enjoy your glamour along with you, and your feelings wouldn't be hurt just because some guy you don't know, using a feature you don't know he is using, has made the world a little more immersive for himself.

I can see many situations where this feature would be very useful, screenshots being a big one. Screenshots and glamour are two huge activities in FFXIV, and why should he not be able to request the ability to take more immersive screenshots?

No, they would not be "asking". They would be taking it off whether I agreed or not.

Did you miss the part where this is client side? You think your right to dictate other peoples play experiences extends to their own client? If this were something that meant you couldn't glamour the way you wanted, or somehow impeding you from dressing how you want on your client you would be absolutely right. But this doesn't affect your play experience at all, and you seem really insecure about what is essentially some pixels in someone else's videogame.

Offhand note: You know I can already mess about with your character without your permission using GPose right? And you'll never know if someone is doing just that when you are standing in Eulmore.

[ForteNightshade]

I suppose I'm a bit... indifferent? I don't think the devs should be wasting resources on a feature like this since I suspect it would take considerable time for them to essentially make an option for every outfit in the game to have an AF option. That being said, with mods growing increasingly popular. You may appear different on someone's screen already.

Put it this way. If they were going to dedicate time to improving glamour systems, I'd much rather it be on making the glamour dresser a housing item or allowing our glamour plates to be applied outside major cities.

I can see many situations where this feature would be very useful, screenshots being a big one. Screenshots and glamour are two huge activities in FFXIV, and why should he not be able to request the ability to take more immersive screenshots?

Would it really be immersive to see everyone wearing the exact same thing though? Especially if those outfits were the supposedly unique Artifact sets. Likewise, if it simply turned off our existing glamour, you'd have a complete mismatched mess.

[Lambdafish]

Would it really be immersive to see everyone wearing the exact same thing though? Especially if those outfits were the supposedly unique Artifact sets. Likewise, if it simply turned off our existing glamour, you'd have a complete mismatched mess.

I'm not really advocating the feature, rather the right to request it. I wouldn't mind it defaulting to AF gear, we already see so much duplicate glamour anyway with tomestone gear etc. Again, it would be an option, some people might prefer that, particularly in battle instances, and its about giving people more freedom and choice.

I suppose I'm a bit... indifferent? I don't think the devs should be wasting resources on a feature like this since I suspect it would take considerable time for them to essentially make an option for every outfit in the game to have an AF option.

I doubt it would need to check every outfit uniquely, rather have a stand-in depending on what job the player is. Gear already checks the players job, so I don't see it as much of a stretch. As for whether its worth it or not, we already have options for visual alerts, colourblind options, tonnes of additions to performance and Gpose, things that take resources and are for a very niche audience. Hell, I imagine more people would use this feature than clear Ultimate. I guess its that age old argument of "Just because you won't use it doesn't make it a waste of resources".

[HyoMinPark]

You'll have to break this down for me, how are they making you adhere to their standard? You can still wear whatever you like and enjoy your glamour, nobody is asking you to stop doing that. Players who don't use the immersive option would still be able to see and enjoy your glamour along with you, and your feelings wouldn't be hurt just because some guy you don't know, using a feature you don't know he is using, has made the world a little more immersive for himself.

If they feel compelled to change my glamour—even if it is only client-side—I clearly wasn’t dressing to their standards and they made it so that I was. Clearly they don’t want others dressing in any ways other than what they deem “appropriate” if they want to go around changing what people wear. They could just, I don’t know, stop caring so much about what other people wear? It’s really not that big of a deal if Billy the Tank is in a bathing suit in your Amaurot run. You likely won’t ever see them again after that, so why does it matter that much?

I can see many situations where this feature would be very useful, screenshots being a big one. Screenshots and glamour are two huge activities in FFXIV, and why should he not be able to request the ability to take more immersive screenshots?

You are really reaching with the screenshot argument here. Most screenshots that people take are usually under a controlled situation—i.e., they already have a say in who and what appears in it, and they can even coordinate outfits to be “more immersive”/“more appropriate” to what they want in a shot. Unless you’re trying to say someone wants to actively take screenshots in the middle of a duty—and, at that point, who cares? You can’t expect everyone to just be wearing what you want them to wear. If you want “in-action” shots, coordinate them yourself with friends and set a dress code. Don’t expect it out of random people.

I'm not really advocating the feature, rather the right to request it.

I haven’t seen anyone say that someone cannot request the feature. The people replying in the thread are simply disagreeing with the concept of what’s being requested—which, they are well within their right to do so, as much as it’s within the right of the OP to ask for the feature.

[Iscah]

I can see many situations where this feature would be very useful, screenshots being a big one. Screenshots and glamour are two huge activities in FFXIV, and why should he not be able to request the ability to take more immersive screenshots?

Gpose now has this great filtering feature that lets you switch off other NPCs altogether if you want to take a screenshot without other people in it.

(And no, before you try to argue it, I don't see that as disrespectful because you're not doing something to how the character is displayed. It's the difference between Photoshopping a random person out of your photograph, and leaving them in but altering their appearance.)

Did you miss the part where this is client side? You think your right to dictate other peoples play experiences extends to their own client? If this were something that meant you couldn't glamour the way you wanted, or somehow impeding you from dressing how you want on your client you would be absolutely right. But this doesn't affect your play experience at all, and you seem really insecure about what is essentially some pixels in someone else's videogame.

I don't see it as "someone else's videogame" though. It's a shared game which we are both playing with our own characters.

"Did you miss the part" where I said it's irrelevant to me whether it's client-side or not, because it's still affecting my character?

I won't "dictate other people's play experiences" as a whole, but this is about having control over my [representation in the game] and how they appear.

Offhand note: You know I can already mess about with your character without your permission using GPose right? And you'll never know if someone is doing just that when you are standing in Eulmore.

And I would consider that rude.

Call me old-fashioned, but when dealing with other people's characters I apply the same social rules would in real life. They're not just "game characters", they're people - each one is being piloted by a real person and acting as their window into the game world.

Respect personal space, look at people when you talk to them, wave to greet or farewell. Thank them when you've played together.

Respecting what they choose to wear is a logical extension of that. People aren't going to dress according to my personal taste in the real world (not that I'd want them to), so why expect them to here?

Am I taking this too seriously? Maybe, but it's how I approach and make sense of this game socially.

I cannot say "it's just a game and the other people's opinions don't matter". It's not how my mind works. To do so would feel wrong - and it's not something I want to train myself to think, because the idea of that is also wrong.

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I think at the core of this, though I hadn't quite placed the logic until now, is that it's about putting yourself first vs others first.

Ignore the third-person framing of "respect their right to not see things they don't like". Phrase both in first person.

"I don't like this costume but I'll ignore it because the other person wants to dress like that and it's none of my business." The other person is considered above your own preferences.

"I don't want to see this, so I should be able to change how your character appears whether you agree to it or not." You are more important and the other person's choice doesn't matter.

Putting yourself first is not respect.