Castrum Fluminis is way too difficult

[RokkuEkkusu]

[Disclaimer: I too know about the nature of this thread, but I want to give my insight anyway on the fight.]

I've seen people get knocked out by Tsukuyomi's ground moon phase from time to time, even after I have explained the mechanics to the new ones. Despite that, it still doesn't give you or anyone else an excuse to ignore this mechanic or say the instant death debuff is "new". The reason I say this is because because the "Doom" debuff has been seen in other mandatory MSQ duties - the first boss's room wide doom on "The Sunken Temple of Qarn" normal dungeon come to mind.

As far as most wipes on Castrum Fluminis goes, most of the party wipes occur during the Shiva-like spinning fans + Lunacy stack combo. Most people, especially first time healers, panic on dodging the fans and/or forget to stack with others to split the massive repeating damage. It domino effects into the party getting knocked out in about 10-20 seconds if players are unable to dodge and mitigate the stack effects as necessary.

[Gemina]

[Disclaimer: I too know about the nature of this thread, but I want to give my insight anyway on the fight.]

I've seen people get knocked out by Tsukuyomi's ground moon phase from time to time, even after I have explained the mechanics to the new ones. Despite that, it still doesn't give you or anyone else an excuse to ignore this mechanic or say the instant death debuff is "new". The reason I say this is because because the "Doom" debuff has been seen in other mandatory MSQ duties - the first boss's room wide doom on "The Sunken Temple of Qarn" normal dungeon come to mind.

As far as most wipes on Castrum Fluminis goes, most of the party wipes occur during the Shiva-like spinning fans + Lunacy stack combo. Most people, especially first time healers, panic on dodging the fans and/or forget to stack with others to split the massive repeating damage. It domino effects into the party getting knocked out in about 10-20 seconds if players are unable to dodge and mitigate the stack effects as necessary.

Very good insight, and I forgot about the stack marker during the fan phase of that fight. Though I suppose first timers should really just focus on dodging the fans. On NM, having 1-2 players outside the stack marker won't hurt too much, especially if both tanks are in there. When I did that fight my first time, there was a lot of resets because nearly everyone was new to the fight, including myself and the other healer. That was the advice given to us by a really nice and patient tank. He also tossed a marker on himself because peeps kept eating the TB while dodging the fans as well, that way they knew to stay away from him.

I did also want to point out that Qarn is actually an optional dungeon. I do believe the MSQ eventually does force you to go in there, but it is well after the minimum lv requirement to enter. It is still one of the earliest instances that players have to deal with doom. Doom is an interesting debuff because it's inflicted through various means. There are also multiple ways that it is cleansed. Sometimes a boss just straight throws it on you like in Qarn, Doomgaze, and Diabolos. Other times, it is placed on you as a result of failing a mechanic as is the case with both the Ahriman boss in WoD and Tsukuyomi. There are also other death sentence type debuffs other than doom such as Mortal Flame in Swallows Compass.

Anywho, I do agree about the fans being the biggest culprit. By themselves, they are not bad. It's a good example of distraction type mechanics where other AoEs attempt to divert your attention from the one about to slam you.

[RokkuEkkusu]

Very good insight, and I forgot about the stack marker during the fan phase of that fight. Though I suppose first timers should really just focus on dodging the fans. On NM, having 1-2 players outside the stack marker won't hurt too much, especially if both tanks are in there. When I did that fight my first time, there was a lot of resets because nearly everyone was new to the fight, including myself and the other healer. That was the advice given to us by a really nice and patient tank. He also tossed a marker on himself because peeps kept eating the TB while dodging the fans as well, that way they knew to stay away from him.

I did also want to point out that Qarn is actually an optional dungeon. I do believe the MSQ eventually does force you to go in there, but it is well after the minimum lv requirement to enter. It is still one of the earliest instances that players have to deal with doom. Doom is an interesting debuff because it's inflicted through various means. There are also multiple ways that it is cleansed. Sometimes a boss just straight throws it on you like in Qarn, Doomgaze, and Diabolos. Other times, it is placed on you as a result of failing a mechanic as is the case with both the Ahriman boss in WoD and Tsukuyomi. There are also other death sentence type debuffs other than doom such as Mortal Flame in Swallows Compass.

Anywho, I do agree about the fans being the biggest culprit. By themselves, they are not bad. It's a good example of distraction type mechanics where other AoEs attempt to divert your attention from the one about to slam you.

Qarn becomes a mandatory story dungeon during patch 2.1. That is why the "doom" debuff is not a first time thing in the Main Story quests.

Honestly, I was there when 4.3 dropped and I did feel that Tsukuyomi was pretty much pushing the limits for what a mandatory MSQ fight ought demand.

I feel the main issues are the min iLvl (which was probably demanded by the xpac roadmap, but is really too low for the average DF group to be comfortable; when helping people through it in 4.3 I found it went much smoother using PF and requiring 350) and the fact that there are certain mechanics combos here that are really punishing, and even beyond what Extreme demands (the most notable being that Normal - and only Normal - combines the half arena AoE with Shiva circles, and you often must wait for the Blade AoE to go off before the safe spot for circles is available; the dodge time for this can be extremely tight, and any mistakes result in a party that is very vulnerable to wiping to Lunacy).

(As an additional emphasis-aside, let's keep in mind that Shiva circles alone are considered an annoying enough mechanic that the popular PUG strats for fights featuring them - including TWO of the current ShB Extremes! - routinely simply eat one and deal with the vuln as the path of least resistance. Here you can't even afford to do that, and this for a STORY mode fight at that ...)

It's undeniably "that one boss" of SB, even more so than Shinryu.

There is a side of me that is glad the Shiva circles + conal spear aoe marker from normal mode's first phase didn't make it in Extreme mode because I've seen player have a hard time dodging it. Ironically, when the Shiva circles + Lunacy stack marker from normal mode is seen in Extreme mode too, players still flub that mechanic, especially when the EX trial was relevant (and that obviously isn't the hardest mechanic in Tsukuyomi's Pain too).