Quote Originally Posted by monk-dps View Post
It wasn't terrible, It literally gave people a start of a 4 man extreme which people asked for, it gave random mechs within the fight, it had a different structure and a few other things in there. It was a start. The bigger issue here is people wanting everything handed to them instead of learning things and growing. It's why we have a very easy mode in solo msq fights, which people apparently couldn't do. I know you remember those threads of people dying in solo msq fights. This thread is asking for harder dungeons but they aren't adding more dungeons we're getting less. I feel like the bigger issue is not the dungeons, but the playerbase as a whole not wanting to get better at anything so we have to deal with baby dungeons. Long of the short of it, I still say we need to ask for better systems first to make the playerbase better otherwise it'll just be a waste. Look at everything that was nerfed or the 2k thread if you don't believe me.
How is any "start" going to be "everything"? How are those who wanted a 4-man extreme trial... everyone? How are just a few AoEs repeated in mostly random order so different from a few AoEs repeated in non-random, but nonetheless varied, order? How is the perfectly circular structure in which we fight Rathalos different from the perfectly circular structure in which we fight so many others? How is the phase-structure of the fight itself so different from other trials, save in that it is simpler (having fewer distinct phases overall)? How is not understanding the objectives of the fight (such as needing to kite Zenos until having survived for a sufficient, not-listed, time) or underestimating its dependence on gimmicks (such as in the Thancred vs. Ranjit) the same thing as needing as few mechanics, distinct phases, or party play as possible? You've badly conflated each of these.

And, again, if the bottleneck is the playerbase, then perhaps you could make suggestions towards the game's improving said playerbase? Without allowing for those suggestions, let alone providing any of your own, you're not just insisting that improvements to the playerbase are needed first, but that improvements to the playerbase are not feasible and therefore anything more than "baby" content is not feasible. They don't need to be wholly detailed or concrete, but there should at least be a span of improvements you think, given the right implementations, are possible and a smaller set you think are likely. Yours and others' opinions on which improvements are even remotely possible, and which are likely, can then guide discussion here and in any other thread that dares to suggest or care about anything beyond the lowest common denominator.

Simply precluding whatever you are not particularly fond of as not currently viable does nothing to aid discussion unless those suggestions are meant to be thrown into the game in the near future. There is no such implication here. This thread is equal parts discussion on future-proofing via reward systems, which gameplay loops we enjoy or at least chuckle kindly at, and what we want to see from experimental content. None of that is immediately deployable. Little of that is even concrete and/or packaged. There are suggestions that may threaten your preferences in the game, but this is about as far from that as possible.

I apologize if I come off as hostile to you; that is not my intent. But, just as much as the playerbase could make use of steady reasons to improve, so perhaps can how we communicate on the forums. There is an important place for determining useful scope on any thread, but to insist that a bottleneck not only be addressed, but dealt with, before we even discuss what we might want to use those fixes for, denies anyone the ability to progress topics in which they have the most to contribute. It's like purposely refusing to switch between tasks even when one hits a bog and could be helped by another's progress.

Throw us a rope here. Let's address the issue of the playerbase, sure, but let's also make some allowance for how those fixes might play out and how we can make use of them.