Why can't Dungeons be longer/harder, but more... piecework?

[linay]

For instance, if the roulette was just there to accelerate your queue by allowing any dungeon to give the same rewards as one that would fit you, it would still function in its alleged purpose, but wouldn't be so obligatory as a daily task.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. The roulette is not an obligatory daily task now. Spamming the highest dungeon you can enter is sufficient for experience points and/or tomestones (and may even be better in terms of keeping up with gear upgrades as you level), not to mention the other means of gaining said rewards.

[Shurrikhan]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. The roulette is not an obligatory daily task now. Spamming the highest dungeon you can enter is sufficient for experience points and/or tomestones (and may even be better in terms of keeping up with gear upgrades as you level), not to mention the other means of gaining said rewards.

Yes, but why would most players, say, spam the latest dungeon(s) 7 times when they can just do their daily expert roulette 4 times (over 4 days, ofc) for the same result?

The daily bonus and others like it try to oblige a daily playtime requirement. It isn't much, but it is a pressure that devalues playing for potentially longer periods at whatever time you wish to play in favor of daily chunks which are quickly made less efficient after the first 20-40 minutes (unless doing a MS roulette for leveling, ofc, in which case we should add on another 40 minutes).

So the simple question was, would it be better if the game left your playtime more flexible by not encouraging daily log-ins, and instead only weekly completions or the like?

[linay]

Yes, but why would most players, say, spam the latest dungeon(s) 7 times when they can just do their daily expert roulette 4 times (over 4 days, ofc) for the same result?

The daily bonus and others like it try to oblige a daily playtime requirement. It isn't much, but it is a pressure that devalues playing for potentially longer periods at whatever time you wish to play in favor of daily chunks which are quickly made less efficient after the first 20-40 minutes (unless doing a MS roulette for leveling, ofc, in which case we should add on another 40 minutes).

So the simple question was, would it be better if the game left your playtime more flexible by not encouraging daily log-ins, and instead only weekly completions or the like?

Well, like I said, gear, for one. You can do all the roulettes and not get a single gear upgrade unless you just want tomestones.

And something being more "efficient" than another in one thing does not make it obligatory or put pressure on you. You have complete control over how you spend your time. What puts pressure on you is yourself (or your friend if your trying to rush to be able to play with them).

I think the game is pretty flexible as it is, depending on your goal and how fast you want to get to it.

[PyurBlue]

And something being more "efficient" than another in one thing does not make it obligatory or put pressure on you. You have complete control over how you spend your time. What puts pressure on you is yourself (or your friend if your trying to rush to be able to play with them).

You have control over how you spend your free time, not necessarily all of your time. Time gated bonus do influence what is or isn't efficient and can persuade you to play in a way that you'd rather not. You don't have to play the game at all of course, but avoiding it entirely would just be silly if there are parts of it that you enjoy.

I find daily and weekly rewards to be inflexible at times and I'd prefer not having to take them into account when trying to progress through the game.

[linay]

You have control over how you spend your free time, not necessarily all of your time. Time gated bonus do influence what is or isn't efficient and can persuade you to play in a way that you'd rather not. You don't have to play the game at all of course, but avoiding it entirely would just be silly if there are parts of it that you enjoy.

I find daily and weekly rewards to be inflexible at times and I'd prefer not having to take them into account when trying to progress through the game.

It can persuade, but does not obligate you to do anything. Also, specifically to the topic of this thread (dungeons), the only dailies are the roulettes, and all the rewards from roulettes can be gained by other methods that are not time gated. So you indeed have flexibility in how you want to play depending on your situation and goal (how much time you have to play or whether you need gear upgrade/MSQ completion/experience points, etc).

[PyurBlue]

It can persuade, but does not obligate you to do anything.

That depends on your goal. If you're trying to level and want the most XP/time, you need to make use of roulettes. Without a roulette bonus, it wouldn't matter if you logged in for roulettes once a day, or just ran a bunch of dungeons at the end of the week.

Also, specifically to the topic of this thread (dungeons), the only dailies are the roulettes, and all the rewards from roulettes can be gained by other methods that are not time gated.

Roulette rewards aren't exclusive, but that's not the problem, it's that they make one way (or schedule I guess) of obtaining those rewards better than others in terms of efficiency.

So you indeed have flexibility in how you want to play depending on your situation and goal (how much time you have to play or whether you need gear upgrade/MSQ completion/experience points, etc).

There is some flexibility, but time gating isn't contributing to that at all.

[Shurrikhan]

It can persuade, but does not obligate you to do anything. Also, specifically to the topic of this thread (dungeons), the only dailies are the roulettes, and all the rewards from roulettes can be gained by other methods that are not time gated. So you indeed have flexibility in how you want to play depending on your situation and goal (how much time you have to play or whether you need gear upgrade/MSQ completion/experience points, etc).

Sorry, I was using the term similarly to "If you want to do Ultimate, you are obliged to be well-geared and choose a job that isn't distinctly sub-optimal", but in this case "If one wants to grind tomes efficiently, roulettes are obligatory."
They are not strictly necessary (you can get carried even in Ultimate), but you'd certainly never be able to complain about your inability to achieve those ends if you didn't first use those means.

Looking at roulettes specifically, we are systematically encouraged to spend less time on content of our choosing as to benefit the content of others. It largely cycles back to where we all at many point have benefited from roulettes (even if we do still get the conspicuous party of all 80s doing Titan for a Trial roulette), backing it balance back while also giving us some variety.

If that were the end of it, I wouldn't see even the slightest issue. But...

• What about the people who want to random content and/or content that helps people (for them, that "random" is then still "chosen" content, in a sense)?
• And, what does the massive disparity in EXP efficiency between just doing dailies and actually progressing through content at your level do for your sense of progression when leveling a job?

Or, more simply put, why don't Roulettes just attempt to make other content just slightly more efficient than your own on your first use per day and only slightly less efficient thereafter, instead of initially far more efficient and then nearly worthless?

Would that added flexibility, by less noticeably conditioning the player or skewing their decision with the relative carrot (efficiency for doing what roulettes ask of you) and stick (inefficiency for doing what you want), be better or worse for the game?

[linay]

That depends on your goal. If you're trying to level and want the most XP/time, you need to make use of roulettes. Without a roulette bonus, it wouldn't matter if you logged in for roulettes once a day, or just ran a bunch of dungeons at the end of the week.



Roulette rewards aren't exclusive, but that's not the problem, it's that they make one way (or schedule I guess) of obtaining those rewards better than others in terms of efficiency.


There is some flexibility, but time gating isn't contributing to that at all.

There is always a most efficient way of achieving a goal. Flexibility means you can sacrifice that efficiency if you value other things and it won't be such a detriment to your goal. If you want the most efficient method, then of course you've limited yourself to whatever is the most efficient method available.

And again, time gating is only a problem if you limit yourself to the time gated content. The only time gate you cannot overcome is the weekly tomestone cap and weekly raid drop, which has nothing to do with the roulette. You can do the roulette and supplement it with other contents if you want to continue farming whatever it is you want.

Sorry, I was using the term similarly to "If you want to do Ultimate, you are obliged to be well-geared and choose a job that isn't distinctly sub-optimal", but in this case "If one wants to grind tomes efficiently, roulettes are obligatory."
They are not strictly necessary (you can get carried even in Ultimate), but you'd certainly never be able to complain about your inability to achieve those ends if you didn't first use those means.

Looking at roulettes specifically, we are systematically encouraged to spend less time on content of our choosing as to benefit the content of others. It largely cycles back to where we all at many point have benefited from roulettes (even if we do still get the conspicuous party of all 80s doing Titan for a Trial roulette), backing it balance back while also giving us some variety.

If that were the end of it, I wouldn't see even the slightest issue. But...

• What about the people who want to random content and/or content that helps people (for them, that "random" is then still "chosen" content, in a sense)?
• And, what does the massive disparity in EXP efficiency between just doing dailies and actually progressing through content at your level do for your sense of progression when leveling a job?

Or, more simply put, why don't Roulettes just attempt to make other content just slightly more efficient than your own on your first use per day and only slightly less efficient thereafter, instead of initially far more efficient and then nearly worthless?

Would that added flexibility, by less noticeably conditioning the player or skewing their decision with the relative carrot (efficiency for doing what roulettes ask of you) and stick (inefficiency for doing what you want), be better or worse for the game?

I don't think the comparison with the requirements to do Ultimate is valid. For one, being well geared and using the right job is either a duty or a party requirement. To say that they're "not strictly necessary" would be to ignore item level requirement that the duty has as well as the attitude of many potential group recruiters. The roulette is not a requirement in that way as it's entirely a personal choice. It's an activity that gives you incentive, but doesn't require you to do it to achieve that incentive.

If all you care about is efficiency, then feel free to do the roulettes. But if you also care about something else, that you can also do that other thing in place of the roulette or in addition to the roulette. Tomestones, for example, you can cap easily if you're active at doing hunts or Eureka (in Stormblood) or even treasure maps. You're not required to do roulettes every day to cap tomestones. Or you can just do 5 expert roulettes for 5 days and not touch the other roulettes. That gives you plenty of time to do other things.