Why can't Dungeons be longer/harder, but more... piecework?

[ACE135]

I don't understand the people who say they want optional/non-linear stuff in the dungeons because they are boring but also say they will just do the optional stuff if it grants them (in their opinion) high rewards as compensation for doing the extra stuff. So do they want more variety to make dungeons less boring/linear or just an easy way to get more rewards for very little more "effort"/time? Shouldn't the fact of more variety in dungeons be enough of a reward?

[lolicon09]

Shouldn't the fact of more variety in dungeons be enough of a reward?

Saddly, it's not. Not for most people in this community at least.

[Nalien]

I don't understand the people who say they want optional/non-linear stuff in the dungeons because they are boring but also say they will just do the optional stuff if it grants them (in their opinion) high rewards as compensation for doing the extra stuff. So do they want more variety to make dungeons less boring/linear or just an easy way to get more rewards for very little more "effort"/time? Shouldn't the fact of more variety in dungeons be enough of a reward?

Depends what we're talking about.

Just adding branching paths? That requires no additional reward. Some people will always take the "meta" route for faster clears, others wont care. I'd assume each branch gives the same rewards and it's just a matter of taking the route you want to break up monotony.

If we're talking puzzles, entirely optional enemies, bosses, and treasure chests? Things that take much more time? That requires additional rewards, because otherwise what's the actual point in doing it? Can do it just for fun, sure, but there are plenty of other things I can do "just for fun" that also have rewards. I'll just do those instead and continue to ignore dungeons.

Honestly, I don't understand why anyone would be against additional rewards in dungeons... More reason to do them beyond the dull daily 90 tomestones isn't a bad thing, IMO. I'd also say it's perhaps a better means to reward things like Minions and music scrolls, than the existing RNG on final boss.

[ForteNightshade]

I don't understand the people who say they want optional/non-linear stuff in the dungeons because they are boring but also say they will just do the optional stuff if it grants them (in their opinion) high rewards as compensation for doing the extra stuff. So do they want more variety to make dungeons less boring/linear or just an easy way to get more rewards for very little more "effort"/time? Shouldn't the fact of more variety in dungeons be enough of a reward?

Because at that point, you're adding variety for variety sake. Say they included winding pathways, some lore tidbits and even a sort of mini-boss. After going through everything a handful of times, what incentive do I have to keep going down these pathways or fighting this weaker boss when I've seen it all? The whole point of rewards is to give a tangible reason to repeat things you've already done. Killing the Coeurl in Brayflux is pointless after the novelty wears off since he offers nothing and is ultimately a slightly stronger trash mob. If my reward for going down that pathway is a X-Potion. Well, once I've seen the aesthetic a couple times, I no longer care. I have no reason to.

[Melichoir]

Because at that point, you're adding variety for variety sake. Say they included winding pathways, some lore tidbits and even a sort of mini-boss. After going through everything a handful of times, what incentive do I have to keep going down these pathways or fighting this weaker boss when I've seen it all? The whole point of rewards is to give a tangible reason to repeat things you've already done. Killing the Coeurl in Brayflux is pointless after the novelty wears off since he offers nothing and is ultimately a slightly stronger trash mob. If my reward for going down that pathway is a X-Potion. Well, once I've seen the aesthetic a couple times, I no longer care. I have no reason to.

The issue then is incentive structures and dungeon design.

There's a few ways they could do this. You could have an optional boss that gives current crafting mats that are difficult to get or possibly a BOP glamour as a RNG drop on top of gear of course.

The optional boss doesnt spawn randomly, nor does it spawn all the time. Some triggers might have to be started to get it spawn, such as beat 3 mini bosses within an allotted time, or clear out certain areas of the dungeon of trash mobs and hit a switch or two. Maybe you have to speed kill everything up to that point. Or the boss spawns, you engage, then it runs off through trash mobs to another location and you either clear its path before hand or fight your way through the mobs before the boss despawns.

There's lots of interesting things you can do to make the dungeon more interesting in that regards, and having bonus rewards that make it worth while to do is the key to this. Hell you dont even have to create sub bosses to make dungeons a bit more interesting. Creating multiple branching paths in a dungeon where the path you take is randomly chosen when you enter and the paths all have different things to deal with, so at the very least youre not autopiloting it. Or have dungeons designed in a fashion after PoTD with mobs, monsters and what not. It may not offer new rewards but atleast it's not killing my brain with retreading the exact 100% same path every single time.