The Reason Zenos.

[Mansion]

If I'm honest, the main thing I'm hooked on him with is his beyond comprehension mentality. FF needs that in a villain and while we have plenty of perfectly written characters, I find Zenos fits the niche of the "muahaha" villain that every good FF needs. Politics and culture is all fine, but when you look beyond it all, beyond time/space/infinity.... you get some bizarre extremes.

That's where I don't follow. I don't think he has the "pure evil" vibe that some villains have (the first to come to my mind is Kefka). So Zenos could have some potential to develop in that character of a villain-because-he-is-evil, but it need far more writing that "my friend, my enemy" on and on. I kinda like the way he might be used as a tool by other villains though, so I'm curious to see how things unfold around him. But I'd be more convinced by that kind of outcome of people trying to manipulate him into something rather than his own behaviour.

[Teraluna]

Bringing out Zenos again feels like Jaws 5 (or whatever number it's up to).
Zenos, like Jaws, is a simple one dimensional villain. Great in one-off scenarios, but tires extremely quickly after that.

They even tried to make him bigger in one fight (The Meg?) but it did little to add anything to the character.
Then returned him again like some "you haven't heard the last of Fu Manchu" dialogue.

Be careful SE. You've raised the main villain story bar to it's highest level with SHB. Bringing out a past-it's-sell-by villain isn't going to keep it there.

[Gula]

That really is the main reason why people dislike Zenos: he lacks any real depth even knowing his backstory.

His entire way of thinking just stems from his spoiled upbringing where he got everything he wanted; save for the satisfaction of victory over his combat tutor who made it a note to demean and humiliate him (And was also part of a plot to assassinate him). The rush he got when he finally achieved that goal became his obsession as it gave him a sense of fulfillment far beyond any he had felt previously.

I'm honestly not sure how they can really evolve his character in a meaningful and believable way.

The same way they did it for Lahahahabrea. Get Ishikawa on it.

[Bright-Flower]

I wasn't thrilled with Zenos as the Dissidia villain, but as it seems like he's going to be around for a while, he may end up being the longest running main antagonist FFXIV has in the end so in a way he may be fitting even if he's a boring character.

Gaius was brought back but will probalby be more of an ally than enemy now. Lahabrea has been dead for some time. Emet-Selch was fantastic but left us too soon. Thordan and Nidhogg were one offs. Nael was important to 1.0, and then a puppet of Bahamut in 2nd coil but has been outside of the fray for a long time. Elidibus would probably be the most fitting thematically at the moment but he hasn't been shown to be a combatant at all, and the way Zenos' story has been going he might end up as the final boss of the overall Ascian/Empire/Zodiark plot pulling a Kefka to usurp the plans of the other villains for his own self centered goals.

That's sort of the issue with FFXIV in general, most FF games are single player one and done games that have an easily identifiable main villain.

[LineageRazor]

Honestly, it feels like Zenos is being played up to be this game's Ultimate Villain. He's a dark reflection of us, the Warrior of Light. Like us, he has a reputation for being able to do the seemingly impossible, and for being unbeatable. He's the dark Marty Stu to our Mary Sue. Whether you LIKE him or not, is up to you, but in terms of the game's narrative (which, let's face it, is more about glorifying the player character than anything else), he's much more important than Gaius or Nael, both of whom were just stepping stones on our path of glory.

Zenos is the first "equal" we've had, even if the writers had to stretch suspense of disbelief pretty significantly to create a character who can provide more than a momentary obstacle to the Warrior of Light.

So, in that light, it makes sense that Zenos would wind up in Dissidia.

[Lauront]

Personally I find him interesting because of the chaos he brings so swiftly and easily. He's already setup the next expansion for us, it HAS to be Garlemald, there's too much going on from SB and ShB to not have us go to Garlemald and settle things down over there. I like him in a way that I like seeing Green in pokemon games. It's more of "oh god, what's this fker up to now" for me and slowly building on becoming strong enough to actually be worth a damn for WoL. I also find his fixation on WoL kinda gives us some nicer lighting in that regard. It's nice we have someone who isn't just gonna go down the drain like every other bad guy and actually... idk, stands a chance of actually killing us? As you said, it kinda ties in Zodiark for some things, and it can go any way, either with Zenos being the big bad of all darkness/power, or with Zodiark corrupting him and taking advantage of his gained power to do so.

If I'm honest, the main thing I'm hooked on him with is his beyond comprehension mentality. FF needs that in a villain and while we have plenty of perfectly written characters, I find Zenos fits the niche of the "muahaha" villain that every good FF needs. Politics and culture is all fine, but when you look beyond it all, beyond time/space/infinity.... you get some bizarre extremes.

Which is all fair enough. Personally, I don't find his mentality to be that beyond comprehension. He seems to believe that he is the WoL's twinned (or mirrored, if you prefer) soul, in a sense, but in all honesty I believe the Ascians, and especially Emet-Selch, are closer to the WoL in that their primary loyalty is to a higher purpose, namely the restoration of their homeland, their god and their world, and what they see as the natural order; all things the WoL takes on as well, but from the opposite side. With recent revelations, we know that they are cut from the same cloth but of a different hue. Zenos has identified one trait of the WoL, his supposed bloodlust, and identifies with that. It's a twisted caricature, in a way, much like Zenos himself is, but I really think he is deluded enough to think the WoL shares his mindset, which is demonstrated with his expectation that the WoL will simply do the same to Hydaelyn as he intends to do to Zodiark. I suppose what interests me about him is that he is a defiance of the natural order, his gift - the Resonance - being the epitome of this. In terms of raw power, though? Several antagonists, not least of which Hades, had the raw ability to kill the WoL; the real issue was and will remain the Blessing of Light.

I suspect there is one differentiating factor between Zenos and the other foes we've faced, and that is his sheer hubris and hunger for power. To that end, he is willing to do something like try to absorb a god, and because of that, maybe he will be the first foe to be able to suppress the Blessing outright by means other than merely exhausting Hydaelyn, which even Lahabrea and Hades were incapable of doing... with the power of a god behind him, he may mirror the WoL in that singular respect. He is also a wrecking ball in the pursuit of his sole objective, and it definitely looks like he is being used to that effect by his new friend. I also think Elidibus is confident he will cause chaos on the Source.

He will eventually go down the drain, IMO, and he could well suffer a fate like the WoL when trying to absorb all that corrupted light - his Resonant soul tearing at its seams as Zodiark's sheer presence overwhelms it. If I had to guess, we'll probably face him in some kind of One Winged Angel showdown, and his defeat will be the catalyst for Zodiark to break free. Will this be the Zodiark of the ancient world, or some corrupted version of him, like Lakshmi when summoned out of grief? Who knows. Maybe he will have the ability to contain him, but I also feel SE want to give us a chance to encounter Zodiark more directly, since he has been the focal point of so much of the lore up to now.

I suppose I always found Elidibus to be the more intriguing antagonist, because he always had a genuine curiosity about the WoL, unlike Zenos's delusional caricature of the character, and he knows so much more than just about anyone in the plot, and we've yet to see what role he played in ancient times, and what role he still intends to play. Zenos lacks that potential, so I find him interesting... but to a point. Since he'll likely be around longer between the two of them, with it looking like 5.x will mostly focus on the Ascians, and 6.x on wrapping up the Hydaelyn/Zodiark saga (maaaaybe it'll seep into 7.x), I'd like for them to at least work on making Zenos more engaging, even if he won't get much of a rationale beyond wanting the ultimate showdown. I think it is a fair criticism of him that he lacks personality at the moment and that this needs to be rectified.

On another note, the Ascians stumbled on a really good trick with the Lightwardens, as it uses the WoL's blessing against him/her, so I am wondering if this is what Elidibus will capitalise on re-creating next, rather than summoning literal WoLs... there is a lot of hints that he is this WoL he spoke of at the end of 5.0. We'll see.

Lastly, as a personal wish I'd love to see Emet-Selch in Dissidia next!

Elidibus would probably be the most fitting thematically at the moment but he hasn't been shown to be a combatant at all

I wouldn't be so sure of that. He was willing to take the WoL on directly, and effortlessly mimicked Zenos's abilities as well as drawing on his own... he toyed with Lyse, Yugiri and Hien about as effortlessly as Zenos did, or Emet-Selch did with the Scions. He also intended to fight on with the WoL, presumably to the point where he could exhaust the Blessing of Light. I suspect he was being conservative with how much power he draws on until it's necessary to manifest more. All we have so far is Zenos saying he wishes that he had stayed so he could fight himself, and Elidibus cutting his losses by leaving and saying Zenos overwhelmed him but never specifying how - perhaps the connection the Resonance bestows between body and soul? Who knows. Nothing to me to indicate he will not potentially pose a threat in a similar vein to Hades.

Provided he has not worn himself out like Lahabrea did, which evidently took quite a lot, I suspect he will have a "higher" form much like Hades did. People were already disappointed that they didn't get this out of Lahabrea, so I think they realise it would be disappointing to see this happen twice - I'll certainly consider it to be a letdown. That said, I don't think we will face him directly initially, and I am curious to see what he has planned exactly for 5.2 and 5.3, because his plans seem subtler, to me, than what many are attributing to him.

[Sated]

So far he's only felt like a placeholder between threats while something bigger prepares to take the spotlight, because Zenos as a villain has been kinda underwhelming.

We don't really spend effort plotting to take Zenos down, he hunts us and we deal with him as he shows up. He usually just "happened" to be where we were, so encounters felt like this constant nuisance in the background like some persistent update notification. "Want to duel, WoL?" "Remind me again in __ hours." But I guess that comes with the territory of being hunted. It's nice for variety just not particularly interesting since the investment is pretty low.

I do look forward to him being the emergency though. Once he realizes how easy it would be to get our attention he could... he could do a lot of damage.

[Bright-Flower]

I WISH Zenos actually hunted us.

He didn't know we were in Doma, and in Ala Mhigo, his 'hunt' was....sitting in his throne room and waiting for us to come to him?

Aside from his dull depthless personality, he could have at least been intimidating or imposing or menacing. But he wasn't really. He shoots a couple defenseless subordinates which just makes him seem dumb.

He attacks Rhalgr's Reach, but what really happens here? We lose but nothing bad happens to us. Y'sthola is injured but that just means's she's 'put on a bus' for a while, nothing lasting happens to her it feels more like an excuse to put her offscreem for a bit. Some minor C tier character dies, but it's not even Zenos that kills him it's Fordola. And then...Zenos leaves and the resistance DOESN'T EVEN HAVE TO ABANDON THE BASE. It's really a shame, having the resistance having to fall back from here and then retaking it when we return from Doma could have been a fun moment. They try to have the NPCs talk like this was a crushing defeat but when they're able to stay in RR despite the empire knowing that's their base, it doesn't really feel like one. Not to mention we go to Doma to open up a second front against the XIIth legion but whoops,we actually just liberated doma instead allowing Zenos to focus entirely on Ala Mhigo and yet somehow the resistance not only didn't lose any ground while we were gone/because of our defeat here but also we're now ready continue advancing despite the fact that there's no second battle in Doma anymore.

We lose to him in Doma when we foolishly decide to attack him and expose our presence there. Yugiri doesn't die, the village isn't burned, we just get spanked and then left to recover. The only bad thing that happens is Grynwaht gets sent after us into the Steppe but this works out IN OUR FAVOR even by helping to rally the Xaela against the empire when they attack chasing after us. Once again, no consequences for our loss.

On top of that, the way these two fights are implemented into the game just falls flat. I know the fights aren't 'actually' that long, but because Zenos has such an overinflated health bar, it makes the fight FEEL tedious to chip away at his hp. And the fights themselves aren't even actuall hard, they don't keep you on your toes, don't challenge you at least not more than typical instance fights. So when Zenos gets bored and unleashes his 1 hit kill attack at the end of these it feels cheap, rather than like we're being overwhelmed by the sheer force of his power.

[Bright-Flower]

But what's this! In the Stormblood patches, Zenos is ressurected in a new body. Lacking his garlean body and underlings/connections, he must go on a quest to regain what was his! Perhaps using strategy and thought to slowly carve his way back to reclaim his body! Maybe Zenos in Shadowbringers will actually go through an interesting arc! Not a redemption arc that would be silly but maybe something to expand his character and make him struggle!

....nope. He accomplishes his goal mostly offscreen and with no real obstacles to slow him down. He's so OP that he can decimate Elidibus in his own superior body, and fight off Gaius and Estinien at the same time, and pretty much do whatever he wants because he's basically an overpowered shoenen antagonist I guess. It's hard for me to fathom that the same expansion that did Emet-Selch SO WELL managed to completely drop the ball in what COULD have been an intresting direction to take Zenos, rushing through it like an afterthought to put him back to normal.

[Gula]

I WISH Zenos actually hunted us.

WoL-chaaaan