The Reason Zenos.

[Gemina]

Zenos just gets bored of everything and has absolutely no sense of humor at all. If he enjoys something, it's out of lust, not humor. Kefka and the joker do have a sense of humor, even though it's twisted, but I think that's a major distinction.
People want to see simple villains have fun when they succeed, which Zenos never did. Zenos actually shows having fun when he's losing, which actually undermines the satisfaction you can get for the protagonist succeeding at stopping such a villain.

The Joker and Kefka have entirely different personalities than Zenos. He wouldn't really fit in as the 'having fun' type. I see Zenos' version of fun like an adrenaline junkie, or war veteran who can't get enough combat. Only feeling alive at the brink of death. I think the distinction is that they are successful in their endeavors. The most accepted version of the Joker has him the polar opposite of Batman. He doesn't really desire to kill him so much as he does antagonize him, which he does over and over again. Kefka doesn't really target any particular hero in the story, but he continues to achieve all of his smaller goals in the pursuit of his final goal to expunge all life. During the course of what these villains do and their successes, when it happens it profoundly affects the protagonist(s).

With Zenos, this has kind of happened. It's tough to argue that he hasn't been successful. They've just had very little impact on the WoL and us as the viewer. But he has to antagonize the WoL in a way he/she acknowledges. We know how passionately he feels towards the WoL, but he/she does not. Right now, Zenos is kind of like the Lego Movie version of the Joker, where he is trying to get Batman to realize he is his ultimate foe.

[Mahoukenshi]

I dunno. Killing a fellow Scion just for the sake of drama and character death would be equally lame for me, but I admit that I just can't see stuff like that as positive in terms of story-telling or tension making or so anymore. It rather makes me annoyed at the writers *lol*. Though to be fair, back when FF was still fresh and all, yes, General Leo's death and other big villain-y things Kefka had had indeed the desired effect. HW-Bro's death was also quite touching, but I honestly completely forget about the culprit or their name during the course of the game .

As for the rat-brother of Tsuyu: I laughed at his terrible over the top acting skills, but yeah, the sudden creepy eyes and such were irky

As for Zenos antagonizing the WoL. No. Just no. I see where you want to go with it, but he's already turned into a metally-sick stalker with yandere tendencies and free power-up with no effort behind it just to cotinue stalking us for "BATTLE MIH!!!!!"

[Crushnight]

I don't like Zenos as a character at all, but that is fine, despite knowing he was a subject of many experiments by his father's command, and this is probably due to how Emet (as Solus) treating Varis with the whole "I hate your body".

Zenos lacks oomph to me, his biggest accomplishments as an antagonist are
1. He ordered Fordola to fire on his own men with the cannon killing Comrad a minor npc
2.Kill subordinates for not following his way of doing things
3.Killed Varis and plunged Garlemald into civil war
4.Hurt Y'shtola

These are very villainous acts just no real oomph if Y'shtola was killed it would be different , if we had seen him giving the order to Fordola with threat of execution it would've given him more presence, we are still waiting on the fallout to the civil war, as for killing subordinates I mean that is done so much in media it is boring. (I don't view the crushing of Doman uprising as a villainous act heck could probably take the hurt Y'shtola off the list too).

Zenos is not a bad villian because he needs a interesting backstory or a sympathetic one, he is a bad villian because he has next to no presence and desperately needs a plateful of ham and cheese, let him completely chew the scenery with his very being. Zenos is a doer not a planner the fact he has been so reserved despite his character is what makes him boring even when he was with the WoL he is still reserved. Zenos is an open book yet nothing pops out.

Aashi was more memorable as the detestable worm because the writers made damn sure you'd hate him and his performance and actions encenuated his very character.

[Crushnight]

Zenos in a Dissidea game is more likely to fight the villians than the heroes due to the villians sheer strength. So maybe using him as a wild card is what they plan to do with him.

[Gemina]

I dunno. Killing a fellow Scion just for the sake of drama and character death would be equally lame for me, but I admit that I just can't see stuff like that as positive in terms of story-telling or tension making or so anymore. It rather makes me annoyed at the writers *lol*. Though to be fair, back when FF was still fresh and all, yes, General Leo's death and other big villain-y things Kefka had had indeed the desired effect. HW-Bro's death was also quite touching, but I honestly completely forget about the culprit or their name during the course of the game .

As for the rat-brother of Tsuyu: I laughed at his terrible over the top acting skills, but yeah, the sudden creepy eyes and such were irky

As for Zenos antagonizing the WoL. No. Just no. I see where you want to go with it, but he's already turned into a metally-sick stalker with yandere tendencies and free power-up with no effort behind it just to cotinue stalking us for "BATTLE MIH!!!!!"

What other purpose is there for killing off a major character other than dramatic? Unless the character is useless, or fulfilled their purpose, in which case they are hardly considered a major character. You're not going to have a good story if there is no consequence, no threat, no despair and feeling of hopelessness for the heroes. It needs tension. We need to feel like the stakes are high. I never said it had to be a Scion though. I just said it needs to be of the same magnitude as Haurchefant. If you can think of another way for Zenos to make a huge impact on the WoL, I am all ears. Because killing someone the WoL cares greatly for, or deception have been the two methods the villains I do enjoy in FFXIV have used to get it done.

Tsuyu's brother was just a PoS. But I bring him up because what he did was so wretched and lacking of any human compassion. The guy is lower than a freakin lizard. The fact that it was Tsuyu he antagonized more so than the WoL doesn't excuse his actions. They are low all the same. He didn't make me laugh at all. I wanted to give him a swift justice with my katana.

And if Zenos doesn't antagonize the WoL, then what else is he going to do? Ask him/her over for a coffee bisquit, doma tea and trade war stories?

[Theodric]

I don't like Zenos as a character at all, but that is fine, despite knowing he was a subject of many experiments by his father's command, and this is probably due to how Emet (as Solus) treating Varis with the whole "I hate your body".

That's a common misconception. Varis didn't approve of Aulus' experiments, Zenos sought him out of his own accord. Everything Zenos did to 'enhance' himself was very much of his own choice, he wasn't experimented on by his father. He has no sympathetic and tragic backstory. He's just a bad apple. His father wasn't exaggerating when he called him a spoiled princeling, that's exactly what he is.

[Valic]

He's just a bad apple. His father wasn't exaggerating when he called him a spoiled princeling, that's exactly what he is.

To add on this and prolly going into spoiler territory...

Varis was shocked at the reason for why Zenos killed him. He thought it was to take over the country or something else that this "spoiled princeling" wanted and demanded to have. Thing is, Varis didn't truly understand what Zenos had desired and assumed he's just another garlean royalty after the throne. He isn't and I can easily see why he would want the leader of the Garlean empire dead so that there's no more interference between the WoL and Zenos.

Something else for people to consider.... Yes we liked Emet Selch, yes we liked Gaius... Yes they both have reasonable goals and motivation for why they are what they are and what they do. That's kinda the point of Zenos... He doesn't need a reason to slaughter, he's full of himself on that front already and has been for quite some time considering how bored he was running the empire as is. I my opinion, he's the only character who hasn't had this tragic backstory or some form of redemption arc that involves some fleeting dream of salvation. No, he's worse. He's a psychopath bent on ruining the world's champion and #1 go-to hero to the point of potentially destroying universes just to do it. He's not reasonable like any other villain, he's not negotiable or this character that's been built up with a ton of dialogue from NPC's expression empathy for them. Nidhogg was also a good villain but again, we empathized with all of these villains... Zenos isn't that. He's as Krile said, a ravenous insatiable monster. He will stop at nothing to reach the ultimatum of this story, which is to battle to the death on the brink of existence with the strongest warrior in all of time. To make legend, to feel true struggle, anguish, defeat or victory.

And again I repeat... LOT of FF final bosses are like this. They're not just some entity you negotiate with and all is well or you end up empathizing with them. They're usually the big bad guy that genuinely wants all end to come by their hands and lust for power. Zenos fits that to a T.

Some of you may be complaining "I don't like that" or never felt anything from Zenos upon introduction, but THAT'S THE POINT.... All the WoL from their perspective should know, is they're super effing strong and bordering on immortality. We're not supposed to "like" him or empathize or feel a reason why they're just in their course. They're a villain, they're deranged and fixated on a goal beyond base comprehension of control over empires/countries or simple controversies of man. I'm sure we'll see more backstory in the future but until then, we know enough to understand he's a monster longing for enough power to break the one person he couldn't break and he's willing to go to any length to do this. A far as not enjoying cliche's like the potential of him absorbing Zodiark and us Hydaelyn... Sorry but FF's are cliche. See all of heavensward. I'll admit though I would enjoy a reverse perspective and understanding from Zodiark that perhaps Hydaelyn didn't explain maybe.

[Lauront]

Hmmm I can't say I agree entirely on that characterisation of how Varis saw Zenos.

The way in which he calls him a monster when discussing him with Elidibus suggests he saw him as something worse, and not merely a royal seeking power. What I think Varis could not fathom is Zenos's mindset - his desire to seek nothing but self-satisfaction, with no further, deeper reason or agenda behind his goals, but he clearly believed there was something ghastly about him.

I kind of agree with your assessment of Zenos otherwise, but I just find him bland. He shows no reaction to the newfound powers he's exhibiting as facets of the Resonance... he's just perpetually reminding everyone of how bored he is. Fine, to a point, but he better get to one, and fast, or people are going to grow even more bored of him in turn.

I don't really care that he's got no real depth to him, but they could at least make him more entertaining. I also still believe he is going to get more than he is bargaining for out of Zodiark. His is a case of true hubris and it looks like he's simply the fulcrum to bring Zodiark into the plot without the need for all the Rejoinings to be completed.

That's a common misconception. Varis didn't approve of Aulus' experiments, Zenos sought him out of his own accord. Everything Zenos did to 'enhance' himself was very much of his own choice, he wasn't experimented on by his father. He has no sympathetic and tragic backstory. He's just a bad apple. His father wasn't exaggerating when he called him a spoiled princeling, that's exactly what he is.

Yup. There's no confirmation Varis ever experimented upon him. Zenos is a thrill-seeker and would often take risks of his own accord to circumvent his limitations. Varis removed Aulus from the Imperial Court. At worst, I think he may have simply observed to see if anything interesting came out of the experiments under Zenos's auspice.

The sole reference to an experiment I am aware of came from Elidibus in the JP version, but it's not phrased in a way to suggest Zenos was experimented upon, but rather that the entire affair was an experiment. Varis only began resorting to technologies he had previously ruled out once pushed into war by Elidibus, with the express purpose of safeguarding Pureblood lives.

Zenos is not a bad villian because he needs a interesting backstory or a sympathetic one, he is a bad villian because he has next to no presence and desperately needs a plateful of ham and cheese, let him completely chew the scenery with his very being. Zenos is a doer not a planner the fact he has been so reserved despite his character is what makes him boring even when he was with the WoL he is still reserved. Zenos is an open book yet nothing pops out.

Which is why people are already more intrigued by his new "friend", than him - presumably someone who doesn't mind endangering both Primals, or deceiving Zenos in some manner. His plan, as it stands, is just an idle fancy. If he really is aiming to absorb Zodiark, he has no way of ensuring the WoL does the same with Hydaelyn, to give him the match he so desires, and I think it is a pity that SE did not have Elidibus play some 4D chess here by putting the idea in his mind to pursue Hydaelyn instead in order that Zenos could secure your compliance with his plan... depending on how they write Zodiark and any further surrounding lore up, that would leave open an avenue for truly becoming a WoD - just not necessarily with the full Ascian agenda in mind - and would open up some interesting scenarios.

[Lersayil]

The Joker and Kefka have entirely different personalities than Zenos. He wouldn't really fit in as the 'having fun' type. I see Zenos' version of fun like an adrenaline junkie, or war veteran who can't get enough combat. Only feeling alive at the brink of death. I think the distinction is that they are successful in their endeavors. The most accepted version of the Joker has him the polar opposite of Batman. He doesn't really desire to kill him so much as he does antagonize him, which he does over and over again. Kefka doesn't really target any particular hero in the story, but he continues to achieve all of his smaller goals in the pursuit of his final goal to expunge all life. During the course of what these villains do and their successes, when it happens it profoundly affects the protagonist(s).

With Zenos, this has kind of happened. It's tough to argue that he hasn't been successful. They've just had very little impact on the WoL and us as the viewer. But he has to antagonize the WoL in a way he/she acknowledges. We know how passionately he feels towards the WoL, but he/she does not. Right now, Zenos is kind of like the Lego Movie version of the Joker, where he is trying to get Batman to realize he is his ultimate foe.

Thats one of the main issues many people have with Zenos. By concept he is very much like the Joker and Kefka. A force of nature, goals and motivations usually orbiting the hero or personal feelings rather than grander ideal. The Joker and Kefka however worked, because of the sheer amount of HAM they brought to their scenes. They had personality and humor (albeit twisted) to carry their simpler motivations.

Zenos lacks both, and all that is left is boredom and edge.

It also doesn't help, that at this point the WoL has arguably a more detailed and complex personality, motivation and background than him as a silent protagonist.

In some ways he's starting to remind me of Seifer actually...

[Valic]

Hmmm I can't say I agree entirely on that characterisation of how Varis saw Zenos.

The way in which he calls him a monster when discussing him with Elidibus suggests he saw him as something worse, and not merely a royal seeking power. What I think Varis could not fathom is Zenos's mindset - his desire to seek nothing but self-satisfaction, with no further, deeper reason or agenda behind his goals, but he clearly believed there was something ghastly about him.

I kind of agree with your assessment of Zenos otherwise, but I just find him bland. He shows no reaction to the newfound powers he's exhibiting as facets of the Resonance... he's just perpetually reminding everyone of how bored he is. Fine, to a point, but he better get to one, and fast, or people are going to grow even more bored of him in turn.

I don't really care that he's got no real depth to him, but they could at least make him more entertaining. I also still believe he is going to get more than he is bargaining for out of Zodiark. His is a case of true hubris and it looks like he's simply the fulcrum to bring Zodiark into the plot without the need for all the Rejoinings to be completed.

Personally I find him interesting because of the chaos he brings so swiftly and easily. He's already setup the next expansion for us, it HAS to be Garlemald, there's too much going on from SB and ShB to not have us go to Garlemald and settle things down over there. I like him in a way that I like seeing Green in pokemon games. It's more of "oh god, what's this fker up to now" for me and slowly building on becoming strong enough to actually be worth a damn for WoL. I also find his fixation on WoL kinda gives us some nicer lighting in that regard. It's nice we have someone who isn't just gonna go down the drain like every other bad guy and actually... idk, stands a chance of actually killing us? As you said, it kinda ties in Zodiark for some things, and it can go any way, either with Zenos being the big bad of all darkness/power, or with Zodiark corrupting him and taking advantage of his gained power to do so.

If I'm honest, the main thing I'm hooked on him with is his beyond comprehension mentality. FF needs that in a villain and while we have plenty of perfectly written characters, I find Zenos fits the niche of the "muahaha" villain that every good FF needs. Politics and culture is all fine, but when you look beyond it all, beyond time/space/infinity.... you get some bizarre extremes.