Tanks should have increased enmity by deafault!

[Noitems]

Or simply, leave Stance off if you're the OT and -IF- the MT dies (they really shouldn't, but sometimes things happen), you have several seconds to use Stance, Provoke and then use nearly any skill on him and he's yours. Even if the boss did look at someone else, if someone unloads a Foul crit, or Barrage+Refulg, or what-not, your next attack should get it right back on you.

I've done this I don't know how many times, even while focused on another target. Such as Shiva's Ice Golems (admittedly I already had stance because I was the one picking up the golems), or heck I've picked up Susano a few times when they let the MT die. It really doesn't take long to throw stance on, provoke and hurry up and get the boss facing away from the group while you move it to where you want it.

What I hate even more is when the MT gets up, and gets a heal... first thing he does is he tosses a provoke and proceeds to fight me for aggro.

.......while rez weakened. Derp.

I wouldn't advise that personally. A recurring theme I've been having in E4S PUGS is MT dies due to being greedy in the first EE (slow) and due to the OT not setting up stance the highest dps not only eats the first auto but also eats the orange stack (resulting in a domino effect). If the OT had stance it could salvage that by eating the auto and living enough to survive orange and be able to set up mitigation.

If tank stance OT has no chance in hell over taking aggro then there is no reason to not have it on. Some people are lazy and don't want to, but with how strong voke is and how enmity is this expac it's best to keep it on as there won't be an issue.

Because lbr people goof up and you can always better save a run by playing safe and having OT ready to go, and again in a fight like E4S you want both tanks to be top aggro as mechs like Blue knockback-minibusters target those in particular.

[Maeka]

I wouldn't advise that personally. A recurring theme I've been having in E4S PUGS is MT dies due to being greedy in the first EE (slow) and due to the OT not setting up stance the highest dps not only eats the first auto but also eats the orange stack (resulting in a domino effect). If the OT had stance it could salvage that by eating the auto and living enough to survive orange and be able to set up mitigation.

If tank stance OT has no chance in hell over taking aggro then there is no reason to not have it on. Some people are lazy and don't want to, but with how strong voke is and how enmity is this expac it's best to keep it on as there won't be an issue.

Because lbr people goof up and you can always better save a run by playing safe and having OT ready to go, and again in a fight like E4S you want both tanks to be top aggro as mechs like Blue knockback-minibusters target those in particular.

I suppose in Savage, perhaps?

But the OP is talking about PUGs, which I assume he's talking about Normal Trial Roulettes. (EDIT: Re-read the OP and ok they're talking about Alliance Raids, but still.)

If you want to go PUG a Savage... um... You're far braver than I, lol.

[Noitems]

I suppose in Savage, perhaps?

But the OP is talking about PUGs, which I assume he's talking about Normal Trial Roulettes. (EDIT: Re-read the OP and ok they're talking about Alliance Raids, but still.)

If you want to go PUG a Savage... um... You're far braver than I, lol.

Even then, core fundamental value of tanking as both MT/OT is to hold aggro and not let the dps/heals become a target for the boss due to enmity. That's the reason they had all the tools back in 3.x and 4.x like diversion and lucid, to make tanks have an easier time holding aggro. The only made tanks lives easier by removing those options and reinforcing tank aggro through mastery and stance, that's still no real excuse to let heals/dps eat a hit that isn't needed.

[ForteNightshade]

I suppose in Savage, perhaps?

But the OP is talking about PUGs, which I assume he's talking about Normal Trial Roulettes. (EDIT: Re-read the OP and ok they're talking about Alliance Raids, but still.)

If you want to go PUG a Savage... um... You're far braver than I, lol.

Normal trials aren't nearly threatening enough for this to matter. I can survive several autos from Garuda or even Titan (normal). It's only in EX and Savage where this would ever be an issue. And the solution is the OT should monitor their aggro and turn off stance if needed or simply Shirk.

[shao32]

it's seems a problem of the hand not the tool, don't ask to tanks being even more brain dead when was the player fault for whatever reason it have.

[Jimmymagic]

What?
/10

[Bright-Flower]

Nope. While I'm glad tank stances no longer have the +def -dps aspect to them, we should keep the enmity stance. It's a useful tool to toggle as an OT so that I stay behind the MT but above the rest of the party on enmity, so that if the MT goes down I have enmity, without having to either hold back dps or risk pulling threat by accident.

[MerlinCross]

Nope. While I'm glad tank stances no longer have the +def -dps aspect to them, we should keep the enmity stance. It's a useful tool to toggle as an OT so that I stay behind the MT but above the rest of the party on enmity, so that if the MT goes down I have enmity, without having to either hold back dps or risk pulling threat by accident.

That seems a lot of work/effort when Stance+Provoke is a thing.

On topic, maybe just give tanks higher aggro so they can stay second in threat and have MT turn on the Stance?

[Derio]

Thats a player problem not a dev problem