If you had to remake your job from scratch...

[Siccoroa]

MCH:

Gauss round and ricochet: share a CD but have potency increased to 300/250. Can now have 4 charges of each.

Hypercharge: adds 5 heat and 10 battery to next 3 weapon skills, 30s cool down.

Heatblast and auto crossbow, now cost 10 heat to use.

Wildfire: 60s cool down

Drill: no cool down, costs 30ish battery to use

Air anchor: does aoe damage, costs 20 heat but gives 20 battery

Queen: costs 50 battery gauge, 90s cool down, all attacks have aoe damage, using Gauss round or ricochet while queen is active increases potency of pile driver by 200 up to a maximum of 600.

Barrel stabilizer: also gives 50 battery

[Duelle]

If you had to remake your job from scratch......how would you do it?

*ahem* >.>

Job: Red Mage
Keep: Spell names. Dualcast (though that would get reworked).
Toss: the split in gameplay between spell-spam phase and sword phase

I played ffxi, and a whole lot of bard where CC was your main job. I have used CC and miss it.

That's an entirely different context, though. BRD CCing was in stuff like dynamis where you had 9 or 10 mobs aggro you at a time that could demolish your tank if you didn't control them.

Given the MMO FFXIV took inspiration from, CC can be a thing but you'd need to tune dungeon mobs so that some of them require CC while also designing boss fights with adds that need to be controlled. The main issue is that a lot of jobs don't have CC because it's not part of their concept. BLM and WHM have Sleep and Repose, but that's kind of it.

I used to propose Time Mage entering as a DPS with Stop as their CC. RDM could get Versleep as their CC. A Ranger job focused on bows and traps could have a trap as their CC. That leaves the melee jobs, and if fights start requiring CC, they're gonna be left out in the cold, which will obviously cause problems.

[Connor]

For Bard;

Keep; DoT and Proc management, support songs like Minne and Paean, Repertoire
Toss; the pure DPS job design that devs want for Bard, Passive Song Buffs
Return; Foe Requiem (Yoshi plz why did you delete this), Wide Volley (they deleted the best attack animation in the game)

As a ‘won’t happen but I can dream’ kind of thing, I’d like to see songs return to having a 1.5 cast time and mp cost (base or gradual), with the trade-off being that they’re actually available to support the party when you need them instead of being on cooldown most of the time. Especially for Minne and Paean. I mean, who thought that giving any job a Esuna with a cooldown would be a good idea? When healers themselves barely bother cast the real Esuna spell lol.

Then again, sometimes I genuinely think I’m the only person who really liked what Bard was like in 1.0 / 2.0 Although, I still loved Bard in 3.0 despite how bizarre and dissonant Wanderer’s Minuet was back then with weapon skill cast times, so maybe I just like bad things like. In 1.0 it was all about managing support songs, personal positioning for applying song buffs to different party members, balancing use of healing and support spells like Cure and Stoneskin (and being able to make them AoE with Sacred Prism), all while balancing your own personal DPS. 2.0 removed the healing / support spells from cross-class and songs became auras instead of normal party buffs, but still focused on balancing between personal DPS and supporting the party.

As for the passive song buffs I feel like they exist purely to give Bard a ‘support-y’ flavour than actually doing anything. And it completely misses the point of wanting to support the party as Bard, because putting the buffs on songs that you use on a set rotations that cannot be adjusted in any way (unless you want to drop a ton of DPS) just means that you’re spending all of your time as a Bard not supporting the party. I mean if you want to be a pure physical ranged DPS isn’t that what Machinist is for anyway? Why have the devs made Bard do the exact same thing as Machinist but then complain that it’d be too similar to Dancer if it had support like it did before

[Shurrikhan]

*ahem* >.>

Thanks for posting the first complete idea set. I think I read your earlier in-thread work, but I'll be sure to give this a reread after work!

I feel like people that want to bring back crowd control never really used crowd control.

No thanks. I sheeped enough moons to last me a lifetime.

Tbf, CC isn't all just pre-fight breaks-on-damage CC that just adds extra steps, a maintenance component, and a incremental timer to an otherwise mostly unchanged fight. That's both a niche and possibly the... worst use of crowd-control I can think of. Slowing, kiting, knockbacks, stunning just specific skills, any way at all you diminish an otherwise overwhelming enemy force into something manageable is also crowd-control. All but "Sheep Moon, Trap Square" mechanics take place in -- not before -- combat and do actually shape the fight itself in interesting ways, provided that enemies are designed with appropriate pacing so there are obvious, but numerous, ways to deal with them correctly as opposed to wasting your efforts when your efforts as a group are not coordinated around any particular tactic or tactics.

[MerlinCross]

I feel like people that want to bring back crowd control never really used crowd control.

No thanks. I sheeped enough moons to last me a lifetime.

I don't get the "Sheeped enough Moons" thing.

But if they're gonna let us Keep Foot and Leg Graze, give us something to bloody well use it on. Why those two, at least let us keep Blank?

[Jkap_Goat]

Would rather remake the entire battle system to bring back buffs and debuffs, crowd control and what not. Remove a lot of the telegraphing and hard programming of the mobs. Then jump into reworking classes. Cause the way classes work is a direct result of how dumbed down and simplified the battle system has become.

Breath some life into the battle system and you can breath life into classes.

agreed! FFXIV battle system is very simplified and boring

[Duelle]

I don't get the "Sheeped enough Moons" thing

WoW’s marking system is icons instead of numbers/letters. Usually the one that gets marked with the moon icon gets CCd with Polymorph, which by default turns the mob into a sheep.

[Ayanumi]

MCH:

I hate the current version of MCH and much preferred the stormsblood version but lets just work with what we have -

Heatblast
Remove the recast refund on gauss round and ricochet.

Reload
Add reload back to the game with a new effect of refunding the recast on gauss round, keeps the CPM roughly the same depending on the CD and refund you give it but stops high ping players being forced to weave in 1.5s windows

Ricochet
Pointless to have this skill be near identical to gauss round, give it a longer recast like 60s again and make it debuff the target you use it on for x seconds, any gauss rounds you use on the same target for the duration of ricochets debuff do an additional attack to the target and all nearby enemies. This keeps the function of ricochet as the aoe skill but just ties it to gauss round and adds some quirky interactions with reload and gauss round.

Queen
Rework queen completely, I dont know how and I dont care to think about it because I still think it looks ridiculous in the game. But currently queen is totally cut off from the rest of the kit and simply acts like an over glorified DoT oGCD that you can use ever so often. The delay before attacking just makes it inconvenient to use with raid buffs too although I understand that part of high end MCH optimization is planning around this I think its just a design flaw that people work around. Currently queen is no more interesting than old turrets, just press it and forget about it.

Personally would have preferred if they had just did some QoL changes to SB mch like removing the RNG, reworking ammo, adding the gauss round charges, adding onto the turret system and changing the wildfire to current system instead of reworking the entire job but w.e too late for that now considering SE almost never goes back on a decision once theyve took action.

[Kaiserdrache]

Monk:

1. Remove Positionals n replace that with Staggering as Gameplay Mechanic, so that performing criticals n' direct hits raises the Stagger Percentage, so that once it reaches 100% in a target, monks will deal temporarely significantly more damage, just how it will work in FF7R.

2. Change their amount of Chakras from 5 finally to 7, how it has to be based on Monk Lore right and let Chakra have 7 Light n' Dark Chakra by a mechanic, that enables Monks to switch between both Chakra Types, when you opened up 7 Chakra Gates of one type first. Based on which Chakra Type you are using, should have that different effects on the monk's combat style in regard of skills, traits, GL Gameplay n' different Chakra Skills.

3. Add current PvP Only Skills to the Monk for PvE, like Axe Kick and the other ones. Remove Role Skills finally completely from this game and merge the skill effects into the job skills.

4.Change the Attack Combos into 4 different PvP-Style Chain Combos, which require only 4 Skill Slots to perform literally 12 Combat Skills and refill the created gap of 8 Skills with new ones, which make playing Monk more fun and supportive, or in case that positionals are kept, help the monk to mitigate or dodge better incoming damage, the more chakra they have.

5. Give Monks Stances n' also Tackles back based on all four nature elements, not only just 3, the Water Stance is missing!! Make Dragon Kick have different effects based on your Stance, like i.E. Fire Stance > Flame Dragon Kick > adding a Burning Effect as DoT Damage to the Attack.

6. Change how Greased Lightning works, from segmant based and lose it all after 15s to segment based and lose GL only if specific Skills are used like Tornado Kick, which become then Charge Up skills which you perform first after stopping pressing the skill button, while you determine, how much GL you want to use for the skill. Every 2s pressed down the button = 1 GL Segment charged up for a Skill like Tornado Kick to power it up, making the skills animation look also more devastating so more GL has been used to power up the skill before you perform it, so that players also are able to see a difference between a GL 1 TK and a fully charged up GL4 TK. All Stances provide now max 4GL, not anymore only Wind Stance.

7. With these changes would have Monks then 4 Chakra Skills instead of 2. Two each for Light n' Dark Chakra.
Light would be Gentle Fists (renamed Forbidden Chakra) and Way to Enlightment
Dark would be then Fists of Fury and Flying Butterfly Kick

8. MP will be used now for Monks as a catalysator mechanic to either speed up in Combat the GL gain, or as a replacement cost for not having to use GL to perform for a fix MP cost directly maximum powered up TK's, like 2500 MP for one, so you can perform 4 TKs in a burst phase, n' finish it with a 5th by using GL up for the last one, before you have to build up GL n' MP again to deal again heavy burst damage to a target like that, making MP useful for Monks, while it's currently completely obsolete n' useless for this job.

9. Add a new Combat Stance and rename the current ones to Coeurl (Quickness), Cactuar (Precicion) and Chocobo Stance (Stamina), using actually terms that are more fitting and known in the FF games, than Raptor and Opo Opo... making the new 4th one the Behemoth Stance that will be required to perform some new skills from it for later when Lvl 90 Cap comes, also a term based on a well know special FF creature that symbolizes (Strength).

10. Make Monks through Skill Effect/Traits more immune either to CC effects like pushes, pulls, bindings ect so that they can stay better close to the Target, or improve Tackles so that Monks are able to remove any CC from you and a mechanic similar to MSC, that Monks need a way to make Tackle Charges refill up faster, like for example using a TK should refill up a Tackle Charge. Monks need more Mobility, aside of Sprint theres only Tackle for that you need to have a Target. Tackles should be changed to line of sight ground targets, so that you can perform the skill also without an enemy target.

----

Skills:

1) Fists of Harmony (rename Bootshine) > 150 Potency Strike, hits twice, if performed after a Kick Attack for 100 Potency each hit with 10% increased chance for critical direct hits and the Staggering Increase is 5% higher as usual.
2) True Strike > 230 Potency Strike, guaranteed critical hit, if performed short before Enemy attacks or uses Skills.Higher Staggering Increase when attacking from frontal side or behind.
3) Axe Kick > A 250 Potency crescent like roundhouse kick that hits in a cone foes in front of you. Replaces Snap Punch
> Become your first Chain Combo, once Axe Kick has been learned, called True Harmony Combination (between Punches n Kicks)

4) Fists of Nature > Attunement Changer, 1 Skill instead of 4 and you rotate through the Elements for Fists of Earth, Water, Fire n' Air, changing the effects of your Tackles n' Dragon Kicks as also getting different effects from Greased Lightning per GL Charge.
Earth: Tackle> Hit targets get weakened, deal 10% lesser damage f. t. duration/ Dragon Kick> If you have Barrier, renews it by 15% of dealt damage, otherwise grants Barrier based from dealt damage. GL decreases received damage by 5% per charge.
Water: Tackle> Hit targets freeze and can't move, next hit from you ist guaranteed direct critical/ DK> Creates an icy ground that slows targets n lets you stagger targets quicker. GL lets Mantra heal Ally HP/MP and you gain HP Regen of 1% Max HP per Charge.
Fire: Tackle> Hit targets receive 50% more Damage from Tackle. Tackle can now interrupt skills/DK> Adds a DoT effect for 10s by burning targets. GL increases your dealt damage n' Stagger Effectivity by 5% each per charge.
Air: Tackle> Increases range by 50% and causes 5s Bleeding DoT/ DK> The next performed TK or SsS recharges Tackles by 1 Charge after the DK. GL increases Attack, Running and Skill Recharge Speed by 5% per Charge. Stacks with Sprint and other buffs.

5) Twin Snakes > A 160 Potency Strike that can paralyze/bind targets, if hit from the flanks
6) Demolisher > A swift 80 Potency roundhouse-kick to the head, causes 50 Potency damage over time, can confuse targets, leading to the loss of friendly fire, AoE's damage enemy allies then too
7) Rockbreaker > A 120 Potency All Target Attack. Arm of Destroyer merged in for higher Point Blank AoE radius range. Animation changed for that to show.
> Becomes second Chain Combo, once Rockbreaker has been learned, called Demolishing Rock Snakes Combination.

8) Shoulder Tackle > 100 Potency Gap Closer Strike with changing Side Effect based on your Elemental Attunement from Fists of Nature with 3 Charges.
9) Mantra of Meditation > Heal yourself and grant your Party including yourself 20% more effective Heals. Heals under Water Attunement also half of your own Heal for Allies too and 1000 MP for all
10) Roundhouse Kick (renamed Four Point Fury) > A 120 Potency All Target AoE Attack
11) Howling Fist > A 200 Potency Line of Sight Attack gets reimplemented back. Has now the effect of giving a big Stagger Increase to hit Targets and can interrupt attacks now too.
12) Perfect Balance > Shortly Ignore Combat Stance to perform direcly Combo Finishers to gain GL and using them, causes 2% more Staggering to hit targets per GL Charge, and you are immune to CC meanwhile.
13) Dragon Kick > A 190 Potency Kick witg various different side effects based on your active Element Attunement from Fists of Nature.
14) Form Shift > Shift from Light to Dark Chakra, switches out your Chakra Skills. Grants a GL if you switch with empty Chakra. Activates later also Behemoth Stance outside of the normal Combat Stance Rotation. On Dark Chakra can you use MP instead of GL for Tornado Kicks as long you have enough MP, otherwise GL is used. If MP is used has TK a 1s Recharge Time instead of 10s.
15) Anatnam > Replaces Meditation by name n't skill Animation. Opens up out of Combat All 7 Chakras. In combat you open up automatically while moving every 2s a Chakra within 14s of duration. Do you not move in this time at all, then you gain GL and Health Regen, if then Anatnam ends, are your attacks for the next 10s 25% stronger. Merged Riddle of Fire into it.

16) Gentle Fists > A 400 Potency Strike against 1 Target. Very Strong Staggering Effect for the cost of 7 Chakrae of Light
17) Way of Enlightment > A 250 Poteny Line of Sight Attack with longer Range than HF, basically MSC Range Monks kind of Kamehame Ha Move for 7 Chakrae of Light as cost.
18) Fists of Fury > Shortranged 150 Potency Flurry of multiple punches against all targets in front of you. Becomes stronger if allies got defeated, 50 more Potency per defeated Ally. Cost 7 Chakrae of Darkness
19) Flying Butterfly Kick > A very martial artistic looking 200 Poteny triple hitting kick with increased chance for critical direct hits. Lets your Skills recharge 5s faster and lets you dodge incoming damage that is no Wipe Attack within the Skill Animation for 7 Chakrae of Darkness as costs..

20) Aura of Purity > Renamed Elixier Field, effect changed. Grant yourself n' allies an Aura of Purity. Protects from the next incoming negative condition, even Doom, unless it's scripted to get it as part of Boss Mechanics.
21) Tornado Kick > A 430 Potency Kick, high Staggering Effect, for the Cost of GL, has 4 Charge Up stages to increase its power by additional 70 Potency to a Max of 710 Potency with GL4 Charge Up. Deals damage to all Targets on Stage 4, Stage 1-3 are Single Target Damage.
22) Brotherhood > Increases Party Damage by 5% while Ally Attacks can open up Chakrae for you. Gains in Combination with Enigma of Elements more efficiency or side effects based on your attuned element.
23) Enigma of Elements > Replacement for Riddle of Earth/ Temporarely boosts up the Effects of your Elemental Attunements, like removing the Limiter
Grants on Earth a more powerful Barrier Effect and you grant your Party additionally with Brotherhood 5% more Defense.
Grants on Water MP regain when you hit frozen or slowed targets. A small Portion of this too for Allies, if Brotherhood is used.
Grants on Fire longer DoT durations for Demolisher and the burning effect from DK, while the Damage Bonus of Brotherhood gets increased to 10%.
Grants on Air a reflective Wind Shield, that counters attacks with a Bleeding DoT, that stacks in potency so more oftenly you get attacked with it being active, while Brotherhood increases Critical Hit Chance by 5% additionally.

24) Six-sided Star > A 500 Potency Kick with very low Recharge Time and therefore puts your Chain Combos on recharge with a shared recharge timer, but grants a GL if used right after a TK. Double the Potency if used against a staggered target and increases the Stagger Duration by 3s, if it was you who staggered the target.

As you can see, this concept has so far only 24 skills, plan is having 32. From these 24 are basically only 18 using up a Skill Slot. So 18 new Skills to fill the gaps, when among them a 2 more Chain Combos containing each basically 3 Skills.
Alot of potential to make Monk a much greater n more fun/interesting job to play. These would be:

1) Devastation > A self Buff skill that makes the next used Skill a guaranteed critical direct hit.
2) Bloody Claw > A single Target attack with Life Leech buff from your Attacks for 10s.
3) Yin and Yang > Grants immediately 7 Chakras of the opposite the moment you use Form Shift to switch your Chakras from Light to Dark or vice versa. The Chakra Skill performed after the Form Shift, while YY is still active has increased potency and you get healed a bit.

4) Dolphin Strike > A 250 Potency Uppercut Strike that launches a foe interrupting/stunning it.
5) Somersault Kick > A follow up 200 Potency Kick to kick the target higher to the air, jumping after it to kick the target with the heel of your feet...
6) Meteor Impact > with potency of 350 right back to the ground the a meteor that crushes down, dealing damage to all nearby targets.
> Chain Combo with the longest Cooldowns, 3rd Chain Combo after Meteor Impact has been learned, called Impactful Dolphin Kick Combination.

7) Tempest Fist > A very fast 250 Potency strike that combines a Shoulder Tackle literally with True Strike
8) Sleeping Dragon > Followed by a flaming 150 potency Leg Sweeper that hits all targets with strong burning of 100 potency for 5s.
9) Roaring Tiger > Finished by a powerful punch of 600 Potency with that you push the target away from you to gain again distance. heavy stagger effect, when hit from the flanks.
Last Chain Combo, once Roaring Tiger has been learned, called Roaring Dragon Fist Combination

10) Motivation > You motivate your allys, resulting in a 10% Health Boost. When the buff ends will get allies healed by the amount of that Health Incrrease they had.
11) Blessing of Faith > Grants MP back for the cost of GL. Should you or your blessed ally die, while this skill was active, will you be revived with full health.
12) Ravaging Fist> Becomes active after using Howling Fist to perform literally the same move instantly again, if no Element on. But changes based on Element its effect and name
Earth: Dragon Fist > A mighty punch, that sends out from the compressed air from it a Shockwave to the target of many hurled up rocks from the ground. Lowers Enemy Defense.
Air: Tiger Claw > A mighty strike that tears up everythring against a single target. Causes Stun
Fire: Rising Phoenix > A mighty flaming flying kick to gap short distances. Increases your Strength for the next 3 attacks after it that remove also conditions from you.
Water: Turtle Defense > Go into defensive position to mitigate the next incoming attack and counterattack it with the damage that you would have received. works naturally not against everything.

13) Inner Silence > A skill with that you gain a 20 % chance to evade Auto Attacks and raise temporarely your defense against Magic by 10%.
14) Mantra of Harmony > Bind yourself to an Ally, when you receive Heals, does receive the bonded Ally them too. But you will share negative conditions too then.
15) Focused Mind> Temporarely increases the effectivity of your Staggerings by 5% and your Auto Attacks contribute also Staggering with this Buff on.
16) Wrath of Rhalgr > Becomes useable after having performed first a Light Chakra, then a Dark Chakra Skill, hits target with 700 Potency
17) Insight of Halone > Becomes useable after having performed fist a Dark Chakra, then a Light Chakra Skill, hits all targets with 450 Potency.
18 ) Source of Spiritual Energy > Base Potency of 800. Lend yourself power from your allies to create a mighty Ball of Energy to crush your targets with it, Removes your Party Buffs and gains 100 Potency for each removed buff. stuns all targets n interupts skills.

[MonsutaMan]

MCH should have been the mecha version of BST & Pup imo. I would simply add more mecha pets like that behemoth from the Lighting event.

SMN would have been limited, able to use all the primals.

NIN would have been a speed tank (Hard to imagine now though)

Just my opinion, I understand many like the jobs the way they are; more MCH pets would not hurt though.