To Mr.Yoshida and dev. [DRK 5.2 Request]

**Reinhardt_Azureheim** · 01-07-2020 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by SleepyNeko

This will be fine with most encounters I guess but I see myself dying without benediction during Oro Stonecrusher + Megalith + Mini Titan autoing, especially since the Stonecrusher already takes like over 5-6 seconds of your walking dead so you have 4 seconds to go from 1 to max hp on a DRK with 147k~ HP.

Thats why you pop a TBN before the first hit of Stonecrusher, so Walking Dead procs on the 2nd hit, buying your healers 3 seconds extra time (AST-SCH setup usually).

**Danelo** · 01-06-2020 02:51 PM

LD, being the healer CD that it is seems like it is needs benediction, to get the most out of it. I say that because I haven’t had a healer comp that didn’t include WHM that healed me up to max hp - granted that was on the first ex trials and may have been prior to sch and ast fixes.

Since I’ve come back to ffxiv I’ve seen many post that sch and ast can now make that happen so great! BUT there is the issue having a measure of control. WHM has complete control (outside of there being no onscreen graphic to relay information about where in the invulnerable phase you are in - another issue) and the others do not.

SE seems resistant to touch LD in any way despite being the one of the biggest gripes of DRK mains since it’s release. Considering that it’s balanced around the idea of having 10 seconds invulnerability and it’s drawback of needing a max heal I have an alternative in the tldr...

TLDR: I would propose making bene a role action. This is suboptimal in my mind since I’d still like to be able to use DRK for taking on outdated content. But it is an option.

Let the hate responses begin!

**Hierro** · 01-07-2020 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by Alaeacus

To Mr.Yoshida and dev. [DRK 5.2 Request]:

Please give me a better incentive to play DRK's "complicated" rotation over Paladin's less complicated rotation. Right now, I have almost ZERO reason to do all the extra button presses only to be equal or "on par" to Paladin.

Also, survival rate in sub-par parties is NOT equal in my experience. I don't care what anyone says to the contrary. 9/10 times in roulette, somebody from my team is not yet a good player. 5/10 times that person is the healer. When I'm on DRK with a not-good healer, we usually wipe. When I'm on Paladin with a not-good healer, I Hallowed and Clemency that party to victory (solo often-times). I can't count the number of times I've been the only person alive in my 24-raid party as a Paladin (or myself and one healer in 8-man) and STAYED alive purely through Clemency while other party members are being raised. It's become a very common occurrence at this point.

There is NO way I can do the same as a DRK only possessing a crappy heal skill locked by a 1-minute timer and an even crappier heal locked behind a three-hit single target rotation. No freakin' way.

I don't think your personal anecdote is a good way gauge job performance. I think there's something wrong with the way you play if you can't survive as DRK with your average pug healer.

**Alaeacus** · 01-07-2020 04:45 AM

Originally Posted by Hierro

I don't think your personal anecdote is a good way gauge job performance. I think there's something wrong with the way you play if you can't survive as DRK with your average pug healer.

Nowhere did I say my personal opinion is how anyone should gauge where DRK is at on a balance scale with other tanks. My personal opinion is giving the reason why I am not choosing DRK over PLD. If I feel the way I do, chances are other people do as well. To discount personal anecdotes just because they are anecdotes is the hallmark of an intellectual echo chamber mentality. Personal anecdotes are real, because they are how people think, regardless what your flawed endgame metrics show you. You aren't going to change how people think by just saying "You need to git gud", which is exactly what you did using different words. I survive fine with your average PUG healer. I survive better with PLD. That is me. Nowhere did I claim to speak on behalf of all tanks, which means you are arguing against nobody with your snarky comments.

When a ShB dungeon boss is at 10% and DRK is the only person alive, you are NOT going to outlast the boss before you die, no matter how "GUD" you are. The self-heals are just not there. Quit pretending like you will. You at least have a chance with PLD.

You haven't added anything of value to this conversation other than "anecdotes are bad, git gud with metrics or gtfo of the thread". That's snobby and elitist.

**Hierro** · 01-07-2020 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Alaeacus

That's snobby and elitist.

I was led to believe that no matter what evidence I'd present, you wouldn't care. You've literally said "I don't care what anyone says to the contrary." Should any reasonable person reading that bother with explaining? Well, if you want "facts and logic," I'm more than happy to oblige.

When you combine Sheltron with rampart or whatever, mitigation suffers from diminishing returns from how their multipliers work. When you combine rampart with TBN, however, the mitigation is improved from both cooldowns synergizing together. There are no diminishing returns, in fact the opposite has occurred. Now, if you have TBN+SW active in a large pull, you must have noticed how sturdy that shield is. By the time the shield is gone, it's only 8 seconds until you gain access to another 25% of your HP. In that sense, TBN almost functions like a sort of HoT in the context of large pulls.

In between TBN activations, Abyssal Drain best serves as something to bridge the gap and lessen the need for your healer to get involved in the first place. Just imagine this scenario I've lived through countless times myself: You pop TBN+SW, nothing happens to your HP bar, kept safe and sound. The moment the shield breaks after several seconds, your HP bar slowly drains. SW runs it course, and TBN is available again, and your HP's fall is halted once more, but TBN breaks and the descension begins again, only to be outdone because Abyssal Drain is used at a well-decided moment because it's when the majority of monsters are alive, so you heal burst more than your average 1200 potency heal, and TBN becomes active once more. By the time your third TBN has been breached, the pull has been sheered downed to an easily manageable size. Within the span of 45 seconds, you are well covered for because of your CD usage, and with minimum healer intervention.

PLD, on the other hand, has to sacrifice GCDs and resources in order to heal. Hallowed Ground's nice, but at the end of the day it's only 10 seconds for any given situation. As I said in another thread, DRK never has to sacrifice DPS for their survivability.

If you think DRK can't solo a ShB dungeon boss from 10% no matter what, you need to broaden your horizons. Maybe you should hop over to my server and I'll be glad to show you.

**jetfire117** · 01-08-2020 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by Alaeacus

When a ShB dungeon boss is at 10% and DRK is the only person alive, you are NOT going to outlast the boss before you die, no matter how "GUD" you are. The self-heals are just not there. Quit pretending like you will

In shb leveling dungeons, (depending on which) you're maybe right. But I successfully solo'd bosses in lvl 80 dungeons. Drk may lack it's old self-healing, but it's still possible to solo.

**John_Milter** · 01-08-2020 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by Alaeacus

Nowhere did I say my personal opinion is how anyone should gauge where DRK is at on a balance scale with other tanks. My personal opinion is giving the reason why I am not choosing DRK over PLD. If I feel the way I do, chances are other people do as well. To discount personal anecdotes just because they are anecdotes is the hallmark of an intellectual echo chamber mentality. Personal anecdotes are real, because they are how people think, regardless what your flawed endgame metrics show you. You aren't going to change how people think by just saying "You need to git gud", which is exactly what you did using different words. I survive fine with your average PUG healer. I survive better with PLD. That is me. Nowhere did I claim to speak on behalf of all tanks, which means you are arguing against nobody with your snarky comments.

When a ShB dungeon boss is at 10% and DRK is the only person alive, you are NOT going to outlast the boss before you die, no matter how "GUD" you are. The self-heals are just not there. Quit pretending like you will. You at least have a chance with PLD.

You haven't added anything of value to this conversation other than "anecdotes are bad, git gud with metrics or gtfo of the thread". That's snobby and elitist.

Its pretty unlikely that the other tanks would fair better in those situations, Yeah you have a chance with PLD but at the cost of your dps. Its not like being good at a tank really matters when the rest of your team is garbage in the first place.

Also "If I feel the way that I do chances are other people do as well" lmao

**Alaeacus** · 01-08-2020 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by John_Milter

Its pretty unlikely that the other tanks would fair better in those situations, Yeah you have a chance with PLD but at the cost of your dps. Its not like being good at a tank really matters when the rest of your team is garbage in the first place.

Also "If I feel the way that I do chances are other people do as well" lmao

I have ALWAYS fared far better in these situations as a PLD than I have as a DRK, which is what I was conveying with my post. PLD dps is high among tanks, PLD MP gain is great single-target, Clemency heals for huge chunks of life each time. I have outlasted the last 10% of ShB leveling bosses solo. I do not see it happening with DRK. That's just my opinion. People can say "Git Gud" to me all day but honestly, there is nothing about DRK that incentivizes me to Git Gud with it. It's a class filled with busy-work and is only "on-par" with three other classes who don't have the aforementioned busy-work. There is no reward for the extra work DRK requires with all its resource gauge-watching.

Also, I'm struggling to understand what is funny about the sentence you quoted of mine. If you actually think I'm the only person in thousands of players that has this opinion of DRK, you obviously aren't a fan of statistical probability. Do you think you're a unique flower and nobody in the world has ever felt or had the same thoughts as you? The likelihood that I am the only person who feels this way is incredibly low.

**shao32** · 01-08-2020 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by Alaeacus

I have ALWAYS fared far better in these situations as a PLD than I have as a DRK, which is what I was conveying with my post. PLD dps is high among tanks, PLD MP gain is great single-target, Clemency heals for huge chunks of life each time. I have outlasted the last 10% of ShB leveling bosses solo. I do not see it happening with DRK. That's just my opinion. People can say "Git Gud" to me all day but honestly, there is nothing about DRK that incentivizes me to Git Gud with it. It's a class filled with busy-work and is only "on-par" with three other classes who don't have the aforementioned busy-work. There is no reward for the extra work DRK requires with all its resource gauge-watching.

I recomend you to level up you lvl26 marauder and unlock GNB before make this kind of statements since you don't really have any idea what are you talking about, i doubting pretty hard you know how to play PLD if you call it more easy that DRK at this point.

**OdinelStarrei** · 01-08-2020 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by Alaeacus

Nowhere did I say my personal opinion is how anyone should gauge where DRK is at on a balance scale with other tanks. My personal opinion is giving the reason why I am not choosing DRK over PLD. If I feel the way I do, chances are other people do as well. To discount personal anecdotes just because they are anecdotes is the hallmark of an intellectual echo chamber mentality. Personal anecdotes are real, because they are how people think, regardless what your flawed endgame metrics show you. You aren't going to change how people think by just saying "You need to git gud", which is exactly what you did using different words. I survive fine with your average PUG healer. I survive better with PLD. That is me. Nowhere did I claim to speak on behalf of all tanks, which means you are arguing against nobody with your snarky comments.

When a ShB dungeon boss is at 10% and DRK is the only person alive, you are NOT going to outlast the boss before you die, no matter how "GUD" you are. The self-heals are just not there. Quit pretending like you will. You at least have a chance with PLD.

You haven't added anything of value to this conversation other than "anecdotes are bad, git gud with metrics or gtfo of the thread". That's snobby and elitist.

Today I learned that metrics are not a viable way to discuss the game.

I initially started typing up a response to this, but I figured that would be a waste of time, actions speak louder then words. Here's a video of me, on DRK, soloing Akademia Anyder's last dungeon boss, from 100% to 0%. It wasn't planned well, I kinda just threw up a PF asking for help getting there with no plan/no cd map/no idea what I would do and did it. So there are mistakes I would change in another "attempt".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nGUDB9dSmE

Considering the only defensive I acquire above 70 is Dark Missionary, I think I'm fine. I choose Quetzacoatl because he gets damage up stacks, I knew I wouldn't be able to grab all the orbs, and he has many unavoidable raidwides, so he'd probably do more damage than Twinning/Grand Cosmos' boss, both who also sit around casting things all day that I can negate with a CD+TBN.

I am a PUG DRK. I have gone all of ShB without a static. I am an above average player based on metrics. I do not just "feel" things. I try to find facts I can support using a combination of my own experience and numbers, try to eliminate biases/assumptions if possible, and rely on that as a basis for my arguments. My thoughts are not validated simply because I have them. There is nothing wrong with anecdotes, I use them frequently, just look at my first post in this thread. But they are supporting elements, not the primary spearhead of a discussion, and they need to be made out of more than just tissue paper (my feelings) if you plan on using them to bulk up your statements.

A shaky foundation makes a poor house.

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