[ Suggestion ] GNB and SAM roles should be swapped

[Meltzar]

Please note that this thread is just a suggestion that reflects my opinion of these two classes in particular.

I've been playing both GNB and SAM for a long time and I really feel like theses classes don't add much for their roles.


What I think is wrong:

Mechanic wise the SAM is just a dps canon with no group support. It feels like SE tried to make some kind of counter attack mechanic for them using Third Eye, but as a dps in a group you should not be taking damage.

The GNB has very fast combos, and having a windows for doing as much damage as possible such as No Mercy feels more like something a dps would do.

Lore wise I find it very unpleasant to see the honoured SAM fighting enemies from behind like a NIN. A SAM should not fear anything and fight their enemies face-to-face, they would put their lifes in danger to protect those important for them. Which feels a lot more like a tank approach than a dps.

For the GNB, having a weapon capable of cutting and exploding their enemies faces at the same time doesn't seem very tanky. Also I can't really imagine a type of heavy armor that fits a character using a gunblade. Comparing to other characters that used gunblades from other FFs none of them really felt like a tank. Character like Squall or Lightning, even though they were main characters and had high HP, they did not really have a tanker stance.

What I suggest:

SAM should be a tank class based on counter attacks. Give more functions to Third Eye. Add a bonus damage to Iaijutsu based on the damage taken while casting it so players might save it to use as a counter attack to bosses high damage moves. It would give a unique approach for tanks as it would not only be based on a different mechanic but also because players would sometimes throw themselves in front of damage moves in order to increase their own damage output.

GNB already feels a lot like a dps class but all of its defensive skills could be removed and maybe types of different bullets could be added that would give it different effects for skills (maybe a random value for types of bullets, like the cards of a AST?). Maybe turn No Mercy into a mechanic like the overheat of a MCH, maybe call it Renzokuken

Anyway, this was my opinion on these classes and I am sure someone in there agrees with me. I would love to see some of theses suggestions being implemented into the game.

[LeoLupinos]

What I would like is SE finally adding sub/multi roles.

Just some brainstorming.

Sub Tank:
SAM Tank with Counter mechanics. Using it in the MT or yourself.
DRG Tank with Jump mechanics can give him a dodge up to x% of total damage.
MCH Tank using robots.
BLM Tank using Manaward and umbral stance to use MP as a tool to mitigate damage.
SMN Tank using Titan.

Sub Dps melee:
WAR Dps with burst and warcry buffs.

Sub Dps Ranged:
AST Dropping Ress to gain a combo that permits the upkeep of Lightspeed infinitely.
GNB Gains ability to transfer the vibration from the Gunblade as a wave through the air with all their actions, gaining speed with Combos and different bullets.

Sub Dps Caster:
WHM as Geomancer'ish
DRK The Dark mage. Consuming HP Shield to gain access to Dark Spells.
PLD The Holy mage. Uses melee actions to increase the power of the next spell.

Sub Healer:
RDM Dropping Jolt spells to get access to more cure. Using cure to restore both mana.
MNK Healing with stances, Fire for raw heal increase, Wind for skillspeed/spellspeed, Earth for shield, and the new one Water for regen.
NIN Healing with ninjutsu.
DNC Healing with the dance.
BRD Healing with songs.

TLDR:
Dps/Tank: SAM, DRG, PLD, GNB, WAR, DRK, MCH, BLM, SMN,
Dps/Healer: AST, WHM, RDM, MNK, NIN, DNC, BRD

[deadman1204]

Can I BLM sub BLM?


Of course, we all know the master would be SMN sub SMN for extra big bahamut!

[Tracewood]

I think their idea of XIV's Samurai is more of a ronin, than the traditional armored tank. Their initial artifact armor is all cloth. You can get an armored set via Deltascape, but I thought that was the angle.

[Josefumi]

I don't see how people get the idea of samurai being a tank when the AF gear for them was cloth based armor. And in the same vein, gunbreakers in 14 are more like stalwart bodyguards and mercenaries. Even their lore says they originated as royal bodyguards of the Queen gunhildr.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

It feels like SE tried to make some kind of counter attack mechanic for them using Third Eye, but as a dps in a group you should not be taking damage.

This is a pretty idiotic statement. There is this thing called unavoidable AoE damage that happens in most fights, or minor damage that happens in successfully completing mechanics. You typically use fight knowledge to determine the best time to use Third Eye to get a proc for Seigan.

The GNB has very fast combos, and having a windows for doing as much damage as possible such as No Mercy feels more like something a dps would do.

This is also taking away from the fact that one of the current SAM BiS builds has a GCD of 2 seconds, while also disreagarding the weaving that SAM does throughout it's rotation, so SAM can be faster than GNB in terms of rotation.

SAM should be a tank class based on counter attacks. Give more functions to Third Eye. Add a bonus damage to Iaijutsu based on the damage taken while casting it so players might save it to use as a counter attack to bosses high damage moves. It would give a unique approach for tanks as it would not only be based on a different mechanic but also because players would sometimes throw themselves in front of damage moves in order to increase their own damage output.

So considering SE have removed all counter attack abilities from other tanks, (Shield Swipe, Reprisal), this isn't gonna happen, as this would solidify MT/ OT role, which it is clear SE have deviated away from this, and has moved to a co-tank relationship between tanks. Also Paladins already did that back in SB just to gain extra Shield Swipe procs, it wouldn't be anything new.

[VenKitsune]

Nope.

/thread

[TR_RA]

LOL they aren't gonna CHANGE what role a job is in the game. they put thought into making it how it is and they'd have to completely redesign any job they did decide to change the role of. that is an insane amount of work.

[SpiralMask]

i think SE tried to play their SAM in a different direction than FF11's dodge-tank-that-was-relegated-to-dps SAM

[Mimilu]

Supposedly, while planning/developing HW, the dev team thought about using SAM as the tank but decided against it because it didn't fit the expansion thematically.